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Old July 12th, 2019, 02:58 PM #3481
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Only power rangers fans seem to think the show is for toddlers.
Creatives working on the show have this same problem, it's not just the obsessive fans. When you go down that rabbit hole of Sentai silliness, and balancing tone, and forecasting the next series, it's impossible to ignore PR's persistent balancing problem.

Sentai aims too low for the global audience. That's not subjective. Casuals miss this because of their limited, or selective exposure.

Web content has really helped that perception, when it comes to casuals. These short films are more relevant to general audiences than any recent season.

Go-Busters flies in the face of baby visuals. That can't be overstated. That first impression matters more than gimmick toys.

Last edited by Zeo Cereal; July 12th, 2019 at 03:09 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 03:09 PM #3482
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SonicBlueRanger wrote: View Post

The Sonic movie. They delayed it after the first trailer to alter Sonic's garbage design.
....So they gave him pants then? It was the naked thing that threw me.

Zeo Cereal wrote: View Post

Creatives working on the show have this same problem, it's not just the obsessive fans. When you go down that rabbit hole of Sentai silliness, and balancing tone, and forecasting the next series, it's impossible to ignore PR's persistent balancing problem.
What are you basing that claim on? Has anyone from creative, like a writer, actually said they thought the show was for toddlers? Not just the "this is for babies" teenage boy complaint that is just about not liking it, but legitimately meaning to say "the show is actually made for toddlers".

There is a significant difference between "Made for kids" and "made for toddlers" beyond use of hyperbole. Consistently, fans tend to mix it all up as one thing just for the exaggeration to complain about simplicity and lack of depth intended for an older audience to enjoy in some series. Anyone who legitimately accuses or thinks the show is designed for toddlers is wrong though, or at the very least has no concept of what those toddler age shows actually are and haven't had to suffer endless hours of them that make even the weakest PR series look shakespearean.

There is real legitimacy to complaints of how young focused the series has been at times. But it's never been toddler level, and now this is on a personal and subjective level, the only people I've ever seen or encountered online who ever actually argue it is a show for toddlers are angry PR fans who don't know what toddler level is.

Web content has really helped that perception, when it comes to casuals. These short films are more relevant to general audiences than any recent season.
What short films?
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Old July 12th, 2019, 03:11 PM #3483
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Shattered Grid (trailer), Super Power Beatdown, the thing that was announced today and has already raised 5 figures.

Greg Mitchell dug into the issue of Sentai's tone, during his interview with TokuNation. He stressed the importance of Sentai's tone for the overall brand. He also talked about how that sort of 'playground rhetoric' you dismiss is really important when deciding the next theme (in another clip, specifically in relation to ToQger)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmtpkWM2HNA&t=1s

The short of it, is Sentai is the baby show to big-boy Kamen Rider. That hurts PR, because it can't aim higher and wider.

Last edited by Zeo Cereal; July 12th, 2019 at 03:27 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 03:19 PM #3484
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RedRanger87 wrote: View Post

None of the content matters if people arenít willing to see it in the first place. Most people think Power Rangers is a stupid show for toddlers.
And if they'd tuned in at any point in the last 8 years (aside from the time when the Power Rangers committed genocide), they'd see their suspicions confirmed.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 03:50 PM #3485
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Peter wrote: View Post

And if they'd tuned in at any point in the last 8 years (aside from the time when the Power Rangers committed genocide), they'd see their suspicions confirmed.
And Build killed 2 worlds....


The whole "Time reset"/"World Reset" thing is not limited to Rangers, stop acting like this is something unique to them please.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 03:53 PM #3486
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Peter wrote: View Post

And if they'd tuned in at any point in the last 8 years (aside from the time when the Power Rangers committed genocide), they'd see their suspicions confirmed.
Except that's the point. People are just crowing about how the show is 'totally a toddler show', but its not. It's a kids show, there's a difference yet all some people want to do is claim it's being made for toddlers.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 03:54 PM #3487
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Tigran wrote: View Post

And Build killed 2 worlds....


The whole "Time reset"/"World Reset" thing is not limited to Rangers, stop acting like this is something unique to them please.
Somebody doing the same thing worse doesn't mean the first thing isn't still bad.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 04:09 PM #3488
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AkaGreen wrote: View Post

Somebody doing the same thing worse doesn't mean the first thing isn't still bad.
But it does mean that people shouldn't act like this is some kind of Power Rangers only thing and thus "POWER RANGERS SUCK!" because of it.

It's a fricking sci-fi trope.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 04:13 PM #3489
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Tigran wrote: View Post

But it does mean that people shouldn't act like this is some kind of Power Rangers only thing and thus "POWER RANGERS SUCK!" because of it.

It's a fricking sci-fi trope.
...I don't think anyone is doing that.

People are saying that it's a terrible idea to have the heroes be the ones to destroy the entire planet and cause everyone on it to die. And even when they fixed it, it wasn't even really reversed. Everyone just died in another dimension. Even if it is a sci-fi trope, it was done really bad in this case.

It's not "Power Rangers sucks", it's "End of Extinction sucks".
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Old July 12th, 2019, 04:22 PM #3490
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Alitain wrote: View Post

Except that's the point. People are just crowing about how the show is 'totally a toddler show', but its not. It's a kids show, there's a difference yet all some people want to do is claim it's being made for toddlers.
The higher ups claim they're aiming for a younger age crowd. Helps backup the claim when Saban PR focused too heavily on moral spewing rather than telling a story and showcasing logical character growth.

Either way, the execution, for movie or series, was definitely not good, but then again PR wasn't the only kids show to miss its mark or fall off the rails. It just doesn't have any mainstream investment and interest outside of the Tommy factor and few want to do so within the context of the show. Just make it hardcore and tryhard, have iconic rangers die off, and nothing else.

It's doable, just hard and too dependent on the crowd, no matter how many times you shove RPM or Dino Charge at them.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 04:23 PM #3491
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Tigran wrote: View Post

But it does mean that people shouldn't act like this is some kind of Power Rangers only thing and thus "POWER RANGERS SUCK!" because of it.

It's a fricking sci-fi trope.
No one is acting like it's PR only though...

That isn't why people dislike the concept.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 04:25 PM #3492
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Itís always fun talking about ďitís a kidsĒ show when discussing Sentai vs Power Rangers that leads to an interesting difference between what you can get away with in a kids program in Japan vs here.

I mean how many kids show can tackle suicide
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Old July 12th, 2019, 06:56 PM #3493
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Tigran wrote: View Post

And Build killed 2 worlds....


The whole "Time reset"/"World Reset" thing is not limited to Rangers, stop acting like this is something unique to them please.
The context is entirely different. Build doing what he did was him combing two worlds to create a new one where the future of his world is assured. Dino Charge destroyed one Earth and then Ninja Steel makes him it worse by bringing Sledge back which guarantees that first Earth was wiped out.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 07:12 PM #3494
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On the subject of Sentai influencing PR, I've always wondered what Japanese Sentai fans' opinions on PR exclusive stuff is. Things like Titanium, Zedd, the Spirit Rangers, Drakkon and the BOOM! stuff. I'm curious if there's any fans over there that want that kinda stuff back adapted into Sentai.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 07:15 PM #3495
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Shagohad12 wrote: View Post

On the subject of Sentai influencing PR, I've always wondered what Japanese Sentai fans' opinions on PR exclusive stuff is. Things like Titanium, Zedd, the Spirit Rangers, Drakkon and the BOOM! stuff. I'm curious if there's any fans over there that want that kinda stuff back adapted into Sentai.
Japan literally does not have the reverence of Zyuranger that MMPR does here. Zedd, Drakkon, Boom's comics they really couldn't care less.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 07:16 PM #3496
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I know Road Dragon was a bit on Twitter for awhile.

I think itís kind of like us, where the small few feels the otherís show is the more mature.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 07:57 PM #3497
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

Japan literally does not have the reverence of Zyuranger that MMPR does here.
Japan doesn't revere Zyuranger persay, but there is a lot of reverence and respect for Pawaren. I don't think any Premium/Artisan/Minipla Zyuranger merch would exist without that strong cross-cultural appeal.

Original concepts like Zedd, Titanium, and Spirit Rangers are tantalizing to Sentai fans. It's important to draw a distinction between tokusatsu, and the comics.

The name "Spirit Rangers" wasn't in Kyoryuger for our sake. It's the equivalent to Power Rangers having a character called "Dekaranger" or a bus called "Go-Onger" - I know that word! I know it! It's the thing I know!
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Old July 12th, 2019, 08:01 PM #3498
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Zeo Cereal wrote: View Post

Shattered Grid (trailer), Super Power Beatdown, the thing that was announced today and has already raised 5 figures.
I'd have gone with the Legacy tie in videos, those are actually little short films that are built around milking the nostalgia game. Those other things are just sort of blips, not really big draws for a general audience, but something you go out of your way to find. A video game promotional video by its very nature is meant to be more marketable and reach out beyond those already in the know.

Greg Mitchell dug into the issue of Sentai's tone, during his interview with TokuNation. He stressed the importance of Sentai's tone for the overall brand. He also talked about how that sort of 'playground rhetoric' you dismiss is really important when deciding the next theme (in another clip, specifically in relation to ToQger)
Tone isn't the part being discussed here though. It's whether or not the genral audience thinks it's made for toddlers. At any point in that interview does he accuse the show of being built for toddlers or misrepresent how young it is aimed at just to make a complaint work? I was reiterating that the only people attacking the show as being "baby" or "toddler" level are fans of the show, to the general audience the brand is just a kids brand, not a wider ranging brand as far as perception goes. Especially for the generations of parents that remember it as kids and see it today with their kids.

Greg Mitchell's interview is interesting, though he didn't handle production, he worked for Bandai, and in the interview you're referring to is just blaming Toei and BoJ for giving them something they couldn't make in his opinion a "big boy" toy and even blaming Toei and BoJ for not thinking of a global reach for PR when making Sentai. Even though the show did fairly well with one of the goofiest concepts in Go-Onger for RPM. That interview doesn't have him make the mistake of claiming it's for toddlers, exaggerating for effect, he's got a legitimate gripe about trying to use a young aimed show to reach "big boy" audiences. But he doesn't offer solutions or suggestions, and that seems to be Bandai's ultimate downfall. Instead of looking for things like "make better models" the way Hasbro is approaching it, they just went "well, that sucks, here's a hunk of plastic without extra paint" and moved on like there was nothing to do. That interview kind of makes Bandai sound worse, it's an admission of lack of effort and blaming failure on other parties, it comes off more like trying to avoid taking responsibility for a failure.

The short of it, is Sentai is the baby show to big-boy Kamen Rider. That hurts PR, because it can't aim higher and wider.
The short of it is sentai is for young kids, Kamen Rider is for whatever "big boy" means to Mitchell, which is already a different thing for Japanese audiences in the first place. The long of it is "that doesn't really mean you can't work with what you're given." The whole lemonade from lemons thing. That entire interview sounds like Bandai didn't even know what lemonade was, they just kept making lemon juice.

Alitain wrote: View Post

Except that's the point. People are just crowing about how the show is 'totally a toddler show', but its not. It's a kids show, there's a difference yet all some people want to do is claim it's being made for toddlers.
Words matter, that's really all I want to get across. When you say one thing, but mean another, it does not make the first thing mean the same as the other. It means you're misusing that word.

Complain it is too young in aim, complain it was too kiddie, but to say it's for toddlers just makes it sound like you have no idea what toddler stuff is and that in turn makes your whole argument sound weak and like you just want to complain not converse.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 08:09 PM #3499
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

But he doesn't offer solutions or suggestions, and that seems to be Bandai's ultimate downfall. Instead of looking for things like "make better models" the way Hasbro is approaching it, they just went "well, that sucks, here's a hunk of plastic without extra paint" and moved on like there was nothing to do. That interview kind of makes Bandai sound worse, it's an admission of lack of effort and blaming failure on other parties, it comes off more like trying to avoid taking responsibility for a failure.
I think that's a really reductive takeaway. I strongly urge you to check out the entire interview, because it touches on all sorts of logistical and brand issues. Hasbro has the freedom to make better/more because of their size, and blaming Bandai for "not getting good" glosses over all sorts of extenuating factors. Bandai didn't have the freedom to use Go-Busters, even if they wanted to, because Saban and Toei had greater say. Blame everyone.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

The short of it is sentai is for young kids, Kamen Rider is for whatever "big boy" means to Mitchell, which is already a different thing for Japanese audiences in the first place. The long of it is "that doesn't really mean you can't work with what you're given." The whole lemonade from lemons thing. That entire interview sounds like Bandai didn't even know what lemonade was, they just kept making lemon juice.
It's bigger than Mitchell. This isn't just his opinion, this is his experience with focus groups and feedback from the target audience, not just fans on the internet. It's the best insight we have on this issue.

Of course Bandai didn't know what to do. There's a lot more to suss out from those clips, than general Bandai incompetency.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 08:31 PM #3500
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Zeo Cereal wrote: View Post

I think that's a really reductive takeaway. I strongly urge you to check out the entire interview, because it touches on all sorts of logistical and brand issues. Hasbro has the freedom to make better/more because of their size, and blaming Bandai for "not getting good" glosses over all sorts of extenuating factors. Bandai didn't have the freedom to use Go-Busters, even if they wanted to, because Saban and Toei had greater say. Blame everyone.
I did check out the entire interview. It for the most part is full of interesting anecdotes about working for Bandai for PR but in many areas comes off like a disgruntled employee blaming others for their mistakes by calling them logistical or brand issues. Bandai didn't need Go-busters to make better molds, it's not about the subjectivity of "did I like the way that looked as a design" referring to how a series theme was used or something like that. I'm complaining their physical production was lower tier.

I don't really get where you think Go-Busters is the difference maker here.

It's bigger than Mitchell. This isn't just his opinion, this is his experience with focus groups and feedback from the target audience, not just fans on the internet. It's the best insight we have on this issue.
Except it is just his opinion, he has to go out of his way multiple times to restate that it is all just his opinion when he gets into certain details, including about how he interpreted the feedback. It is some insight on the issue, but it is also mostly worded in a "don't blame me" way. There is a lot of truth to what he says, but he's got a lot of "it was too hard to do anything" excuses mixed in there too.

Although, to reiterate, this is all about the issues of making a toyline for "big boys", not actually about how the show itself is handled.
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