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Old April 3rd, 2019, 08:05 PM #2841
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BigMDtheSequel wrote: View Post

Yeah, Ben and Betty
chasing a bee around the base
was absolutely integral to the plot of last week's episode.
Yeah, it wasn't. And it also didn't take away from the main plot. We saw them before the start of the story, and after the end of the story. Compared to having to stop the plot of the episode to see what Victor and Monty were up to, that's a step up.

Again, it's not perfect, but it is improving.

I guess we disagree on what is or is not minor in the overall scheme of things. I think pretty much everything you listed is a minor improvement.
I really don't see how.

After six (arguably seven) out of eight seasons with characters having no real problems (excluding like... two or three of them), new toys appearing out of nowhere, and characters never shutting up in fight scenes, all those problems being gone is a noticeable improvement.

And, as I said before, it's only noticeable to people who are looking to make an optimistic comparison to the last few years.
It helps going into the show knowing it wasn't going to be completely different. I was just expecting something better, and what we're getting is better.

Last edited by AkaGreen; April 3rd, 2019 at 08:12 PM.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 08:31 PM #2842
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BigMDtheSequel wrote: View Post

Take Ninja Steel and edit out all the Victor and Monty scenes. Take Samurai and edit out all the Bulk and Spike scenes. Those shows would already be vastly improved. It's hard to say that dropping comedic duos wouldn't automatically increase the quality of the show when you could literally take the show as it is, edit out the comedic duo scenes, and the show would be better as a result. They'd by no means be perfect, or bring the show back up to the quality of its heyday, but at least audiences wouldn't have to cringe their way through several minutes of pointless scenes with no real bearing on the plot in every episode.
Mhm. Ninja Steel had issues of pointless things without V&M. Did we really need two Redbot focus episodes that did nothing? Did we need the random episodes that had no lead up to anything big in the later stages? Maybe removing V&M would of helped Ninja Steel a little, but the characters aside from Mick had A LOT of cringe moments. Vastly improved is a stretch when you consider the writing was atrocious and our rangers didn't even grow as characters.

BigMDtheSequel wrote: View Post

as I said before, it's only noticeable to people who are looking to make an optimistic comparison to the last few years.
I feel like the real optimists were the ones going in expecting BM to be a complete 360 on what came before when that was just unrealistic

AkaGreen wrote: View Post

It helps going into the show knowing it wasn't going to be completely different. I was just expecting something better, and what we're getting is better.
This.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 09:16 PM #2843
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

Which they do by not being beholden to existing footage or writing for an audience of children...
some of the best seasons came from being drastically different from the source material though. in space had a finale made up of only original footage and ended being regarded as the single greatest finale in the franchise's history! just because they still have use the sentai footage doesn't mean they can't have some creativity.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 09:26 PM #2844
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FlameDragon wrote: View Post

some of the best seasons came from being drastically different from the source material though. in space had a finale made up of only original footage and ended being regarded as the single greatest finale in the franchise's history! just because they still have use the sentai footage doesn't mean they can't have some creativity.
And pointing out isolated moments from a 40+ episode series kind of completely ignores things like budget and again the audience you are playing to. Let alone the fact it was the culmination of 6 years of story and they threw quite a bit of budget at it. So much so that they had to cancel another episode of it.

Some of the best seasons also stuck quite close to their Sentai... Time Force. There is no one way to adapt the show and slap it on like they're offering nothing creative because they're not going balls to the wall is so insulting.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 09:39 PM #2845
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

And pointing out isolated moments from a 40+ episode series kind of completely ignores things like budget and again the audience you are playing to. Let alone the fact it was the culmination of 6 years of story and they threw quite a bit of budget at it. So much so that they had to cancel another episode of it.

Some of the best seasons also stuck quite close to their Sentai... Time Force. There is no one way to adapt the show and slap it on like they're offering nothing creative because they're not going balls to the wall is so insulting.
Okay, that's one season. Now name me 3 more that also copied the Sentai while still managing to not be terrible. Samurai? The Kalish Seasons? Time Force is the exception, not the rule.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 09:43 PM #2846
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Visser Three wrote: View Post

Okay, that's one season. Now name me 3 more that also copied the Sentai while still managing to not be terrible. Samurai? The Kalish Seasons? Time Force is the exception, not the rule.
I can name 3 that sucked and was different from the source material. Overdrive, Megaforce, and Ninja Steel
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 09:44 PM #2847
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Time Force was also characterized by really strong writing and acting. Just because scenarios are lifted from Timeranger, does not mean it plays like English Timeranger.

The writers knew who the characters were, for the sake of PR. That's often lost in the more direct adaptations.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 10:48 PM #2848
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Zeo Cereal wrote: View Post

Time Force was also characterized by really strong writing and acting. Just because scenarios are lifted from Timeranger, does not mean it plays like English Timeranger.
People also ignore the bad/filler parts immensly; non-existant focus on three rangers, awkward time plots, unclear and contradicting ideas on mutants. They just yell the memorable parts very loudly.

The better seasons simply wrote well knew to write well and when to merge Sentai storylines, if at all. Remember that past seasons were made while the Japan counterpart was airing, on top of regulations demanded by whoever's in charge.

If using Sentai, most seasons contradict their originality with the Sentai scripts and don't adjust. (SPD, Space, Lightspeed Rescue).
Wild Force, Time Force, and Jungle Fury were marginally better in streamlining the source material's story on top of their original ideals to make something cohesive, flaws included. RPM and MMPR also were near original pieces that also were cohesive, flaws included.

Whatever chosen, we just need competency in this adaptation medium, a medium that's harder to do than animation or live action alone.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:13 PM #2849
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The way people frame and get hung up on chatactet focus in certain seasons feels arbitrary.

When I mentioned the writing and acting of Time Force, I was thinking about Katie scenes as much as I was Ransik scenes. I don't care that the show focuses less on Lucas, the writers knew what to hone in on that season.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:42 PM #2850
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Zeo Cereal wrote: View Post

The way people frame and get hung up on chatactet focus in certain seasons feels arbitrary.
The way fans ignore blatant flaws when propping up season is worse, and dishonest, when sharing opinions on seasons.

Even if they focused well on some areas still meant they neglected other parts that didn't have to be. It's still bad choices for what is supposed to be an team series. Jen/Wes scenes shouldn't have to come at the sacrifice of other characters ; Timeranger gave near equal amounts of development, ignored and uncompensated for Time Force

Katie's the worst victim of this, snubbing her enhanced backstory and personality in favor of original Jen/Wes storylines. It also means they weren't going to explore the future any further, just slap on concepts and heroic monologues to fool viewers into competence.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:47 PM #2851
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kibapower wrote: View Post

The way fans ignore blatant flaws when propping up season is worse, and dishonest, when sharing opinions on seasons.

Even if they focused well on some areas still meant they neglected other parts that didn't have to be. It's still bad choices for what is supposed to be an team series. Jen/Wes scenes shouldn't have to come at the sacrifice of other characters.

Katie's the worst victim of this, snubbing her enhanced backstory and personality in favor of original Jen/Wes storylines. It also means they weren't going to explore the future any further, just slap on concepts and heroic monologues to fool viewers into competence.
The problem here though is you're assuming that one character is equal to anther. Which isn't true just because they're a ranger doesn't mean they are a main character. Supporting characters always get snubbed for the leads it just how it is.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:51 PM #2852
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I LOVED Katie and she was badass. Full Exposure had those epic intense scenes inside that building that sadly had to be toned down after 9/11.
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Old April 4th, 2019, 12:03 AM #2853
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christopherjohn wrote: View Post

The problem here though is you're assuming that one character is equal to anther. Which isn't true just because they're a ranger doesn't mean they are a main character. Supporting characters always get snubbed for the leads it just how it is.
Reds and 6ths get focus, but doesn't mean to exclude others entirely, especially on weaker storylines that don't prop them up. RPM, this masterful exception, gave their core members a backstory but also kept their personalities active even when they weren't focused on. You can remember a Flynn or a Summer moment late season even as they stopped receiving focus episodes.

THAT is competent storytelling, and it could be done for any season, even more now that we have all the footage.
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Old April 4th, 2019, 01:25 AM #2854
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kibapower wrote: View Post

Reds and 6ths get focus, but doesn't mean to exclude others entirely, especially on weaker storylines that don't prop them up. RPM, this masterful exception, gave their core members a backstory but also kept their personalities active even when they weren't focused on. You can remember a Flynn or a Summer moment late season even as they stopped receiving focus episodes.

THAT is competent storytelling, and it could be done for any season, even more now that we have all the footage.
But that same logic applies to Katie and Trip, though. Just because three of the six Rangers in TF lacked focus, that didn't stop them from being charismatic or likable characters. If MMPR can act like The Tommy Oliver Show and still be treated like one of the best seasons, then why is it such a bad thing to praise TF?
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Old April 4th, 2019, 02:59 AM #2855
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^ I had been re-watching the season which had more vibes of Beast Morphers, and well since I going to enter in the Final Arc of Time Force "The End of Time" we can consider much of the story of Time Force is around the Wes/Jen and Alex, and we get too, the storyline develoment between Wes/Eric, because of the Arc with Wes take the place of is father in Biolab, but i think Time Force were well achieve, if we consider the all Post Zordon Era, the seasons between Lost Galaxy to Time Force were more written with Lynn and Jackie Marchand, even LSR which had a low budget for I notace, and they even had a Original USA Ranger, because GOGOV dont had Titanium Ranger.

Time Force with the storyline develoment worked well apart some of the others Rangers dont had the proper develoment, and if I remember the season had to been more adicional episodes, but were cut, i think the original ideia of give Time Force 50 episodes, because honest if that been happens and see the Ransik judgment in the Future and him see Alex again will be cool...
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Old April 4th, 2019, 04:14 AM #2856
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Visser Three wrote: View Post

But that same logic applies to Katie and Trip, though. Just because three of the six Rangers in TF lacked focus, that didn't stop them from being charismatic or likable characters. If MMPR can act like The Tommy Oliver Show and still be treated like one of the best seasons, then why is it such a bad thing to praise TF?
Thank you. Time Force might have given more focus to some of the rangers than others but it doesn't take away from the fact that the development we did get was really great and it's annoying when people make that complaint yet turn around and act like MMPR is awesome when we got practically no development for those rangers in 3+ seasons.
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Old April 4th, 2019, 05:06 AM #2857
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Visser Three wrote: View Post

But that same logic applies to Katie and Trip, though. Just because three of the six Rangers in TF lacked focus, that didn't stop them from being charismatic or likable characters. If MMPR can act like The Tommy Oliver Show and still be treated like one of the best seasons, then why is it such a bad thing to praise TF?
Because you at least admit MMPR was the Tommy Oliver Show AND must confess the possibility of many viewers not liking those seasons for that reason.

Even if loved, don't dissuade that half your cast got the Gia treatment and consider that masterful writing, that this was already an annoying attribute of that post Zordon era that fans neglect to mention.

You still left out Lucas. He shouldn't have to have such a lacking reputation as he was the judgemental overseer of those Jen/Wes scenes. That shouldn't have been his only memorable schtick

Last edited by kibapower; April 4th, 2019 at 05:20 AM.
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Old April 4th, 2019, 08:53 AM #2858
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Visser Three wrote: View Post

If MMPR can act like The Tommy Oliver Show and still be treated like one of the best seasons, then why is it such a bad thing to praise TF?
Doesn't RangerBoard generally chide every list that treats MMPR as one of the best seasons by claiming they haven't watched anything else?
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Old April 4th, 2019, 09:39 AM #2859
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Zeo Cereal wrote: View Post

Time Force was also characterized by really strong writing and acting. Just because scenarios are lifted from Timeranger, does not mean it plays like English Timeranger.
Except all the big moments that it gets praise for are lifted from Timeranger directly. The storylines to Wes, Jen and Eric, the ones being remembered the most fondly, are pretty much recreations of the timeranger counterpart storylines. Heck, they even recreate some footage directly to match, particularly the bird cage stuff and the identity reveal stuff.

Time Force is good, but it is pretty heavily English TimeRanger for the most part. It's original stuff that gets recognized is on having good actors in the right parts, but it's weak parts are where they go all in original stuff too. It's a mixed bag of reasons that make TF good, but also where it's flaws are.

Part of this lifting the sentai debate that gets overlooked is TimeRanger was really the end of an era in Sentai storytelling. They don't make series like this anymore and so even when a PR series does adapt the sentai closely, it's just not the same as this nostalgic ideal period for PR. You aren't going to get the same quality story today as you did then when lifting a storyline or two.

Zeo Cereal wrote: View Post

The way people frame and get hung up on chatactet focus in certain seasons feels arbitrary.
Isn't it the point though? If you're talking about quality of writing and acting, character focus is a huge part of that as the prime example of said quality. It's not really arbitrary, it's one of the only ways to really critique writing quality.

christopherjohn wrote: View Post

The problem here though is you're assuming that one character is equal to anther. Which isn't true just because they're a ranger doesn't mean they are a main character. Supporting characters always get snubbed for the leads it just how it is.
The idea some of the actual Power Rangers are not the main characters is odd. It always tends to focus up around the leader storyline wise, but it is a team ensemble cast. The people in the role of Power Ranger should not be coming up as supporting cast.

One of the most common complaints of PR series, especially around the TF era, was that they put too much focus on one ranger over the others. That Red got too much time, and it hurt the show overall to not get to know or care about anyone else. PRLG is maybe the worst offender of this, but it's occured in every era of Power Rangers. Even RPM for all it's greatness as a series overall suffers from this focus problem.

kibapower wrote: View Post

You can remember a Flynn or a Summer moment late season even as they stopped receiving focus episodes.
Is that really true? Can you remember a Flynn or Summer moment that wasn't in one of their focus episodes from early on?

AkaPrimoKanyeWest wrote: View Post

Doesn't RangerBoard generally chide every list that treats MMPR as one of the best seasons by claiming they haven't watched anything else?
I tend to assume calling it one of the best is all based on nostalgia more than what it actually did quality wise.
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Old April 4th, 2019, 09:43 AM #2860
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The difference with TF is that Katie and Trip still had well-defined personalities. Gia had nothing. Literally, nothing. That's a huge difference. Lucas is the only one who truly got the Gia treatment. Trip and Katie at least managed to get similar amounts of focus as Noah at least.
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