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Old March 12th, 2018, 08:10 AM #801
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I can't fault Jadeite for being one-dimensional. The first general in many shows is often a colourless paper cutout who only serves to contrast the richer characters who come after him. He's faced when the team is at their lowest skill point or lowest numbers and is just learning their powers. He's also usually the least clever of the bunch and his powers are as inferior as the heroes' at that point. With no hangups about his morals to cloud their judgement, just pure nasty, he's the easiest person to defeat. Nephrite is a far more detailed and interesting upgrade from him.

When you compare Jadeite to say, Coan, the first of the Sisters to face the team in R, she does have to come to the table ready to work. The heroes have been operating for a while, they have stronger powers and experience, so the first general of a new batch has to be both strong and interesting. Coan is tons more interesting than Jadeite right from the get-go with a fun quirky personality.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 08:29 AM #802
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Sabanrangerfan Xman wrote: View Post

Which big four are you talking about?

The four heavenly kings (Jaedite, Nephrite, Zoisite and Kunzite), Prince Demade, Saphir, Esmeraude and Reubeus, or the Amazoness Quartet?

Now, the four Specter Sisters (Koan, Berthier, Calaveras and Petz) I can agree on. I mean, they are my personal favorite villain characters in the anime since they actually had more personality than Jaedite, Queen Beryl and Queen Metallia in the original anime. And while I am still pissed off that they didn't get enough screen-time together as a group in the Crystal version and were immediately killed off one-by-one. But not as much as seeing the four heavenly kings getting axed off so quickly after getting their memories back so quickly, This is something that I have to personally accept since it is 99% more faithful to the manga, for the most part.
The four heavenly kings as well. In the manga they were useless other than once being good. The anime gave them a lot of build up and made them effective villains.


Merlin wrote: View Post

I can't fault Jadeite for being one-dimensional. The first general in many shows is often a colourless paper cutout who only serves to contrast the richer characters who come after him. He's faced when the team is at their lowest skill point or lowest numbers and is just learning their powers. He's also usually the least clever of the bunch and his powers are as inferior as the heroes' at that point. With no hangups about his morals to cloud their judgement, just pure nasty, he's the easiest person to defeat. Nephrite is a far more detailed and interesting upgrade from him.

When you compare Jadeite to say, Coan, the first of the Sisters to face the team in R, she does have to come to the table ready to work. The heroes have been operating for a while, they have stronger powers and experience, so the first general of a new batch has to be both strong and interesting. Coan is tons more interesting than Jadeite right from the get-go with a fun quirky personality.
Jadeite is cold and ruthless, he simply uses everything he got to finish his task.

His way is to use humans' greed to collect energy, which was a effective way. His "sleep" was caused by using the queen's own minion without permission so he was forced to do his final task and failed.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 08:42 AM #803
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Slowpokeking wrote: View Post

Jadeite is cold and ruthless, he simply uses everything he got to finish his task.
Nearly every villain in history is cold and ruthless. Nothing new there. The more interesting ones challenge that coldness and ruthlessness to be something different. I'd almost call Kunzite as colourless and typical as Jadeite, were it not for his relationship with Zoisite which is at least a little interesting.

His way is to use humans' greed to collect energy, which was a effective way. His "sleep" was caused by using the queen's own minion without permission so he was forced to do his final task and failed.
I don't doubt his methods, but the rest smacks of desperation, a need to be seen as more than what he is. He uses the minion without permission, and then in his final task, he limps back to Beryl vainly hoping that information will save his life in place of failure.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 09:31 AM #804
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Jadeite at least was interesting I felt in that he learned their identities and tried to bargain, but ultimately failed. But yeah, he's really just a set up; base villain. Kunzite was much the same, except he was more powerful and established as Beryl's right hand man. I wish we had had more with him but oh well. Technically the Four Kings were all kinda...basic. Even Nephrite. The only interesting thing about him was that he got a somewhat creepy affection for Naru that made him become good in the end. I still think that could've been done better, but in the end while it was interesting to see one of the generals turn "good", they were all simple villains.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 10:16 AM #805
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I guess. Oh well, "c'est la vie!"

Anyways, uhm. I have a little bit of a hypothetical question in regards to the Stars arc from the manga being adapted into the final installment of Sailor Moon Crystal in the near-future. Now, I've heard that the original manga arc of Stars is a lot more darker than the original anime arc. I mean, like "grim and moody"-type of dark. Not like "Batman: The Killing Joke" level of dark. Simply because there's a like a huge tons of death scenes in that particular arc. My question is this....is it going to get a much lighter tone in adaptation, or will be exactly the same as the manga version, but with better light fixture just to see the fight scenes?
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Old March 12th, 2018, 10:49 AM #806
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Sabanrangerfan Xman wrote: View Post

I guess. Oh well, "c'est la vie!"

Anyways, uhm. I have a little bit of a hypothetical question in regards to the Stars arc from the manga being adapted into the final installment of Sailor Moon Crystal in the near-future. Now, I've heard that the original manga arc of Stars is a lot more darker than the original anime arc. I mean, like "grim and moody"-type of dark. Not like "Batman: The Killing Joke" level of dark. Simply because there's a like a huge tons of death scenes in that particular arc. My question is this....is it going to get a much lighter tone in adaptation, or will be exactly the same as the manga version, but with better light fixture just to see the fight scenes?
Judging by the way they adapted 1-3 , I would say they that they adapt it pretty faithfully. But I think some of the violence will be a little toned down. As Crystal has turned down some of the violence.

However, the fact Dream has been limited to two movies could lead to more stuff getting ommited. And I would assume any Stars Manga Adaption would probably be movies too. So that could effect there faithfulness.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 11:05 AM #807
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Alitain wrote: View Post

Jadeite at least was interesting I felt in that he learned their identities and tried to bargain, but ultimately failed. But yeah, he's really just a set up; base villain. Kunzite was much the same, except he was more powerful and established as Beryl's right hand man. I wish we had had more with him but oh well. Technically the Four Kings were all kinda...basic. Even Nephrite. The only interesting thing about him was that he got a somewhat creepy affection for Naru that made him become good in the end. I still think that could've been done better, but in the end while it was interesting to see one of the generals turn "good", they were all simple villains.
I agree, the villains didn't really start improving as a whole until R. But that's to be expected in the first season where we're still learning about the heroes themselves, seeing what makes them mesh together. There's a lot to learn on both sides and not a lot of time to completely flesh everyone out. Even Venus drops right into the climax of the Rainbow Crystal story as her introduction. If someone was going to be sacrificed with weak characterization, it was obviously going to be the henchmen.

By the time R happens, you know the basic personalities of the heroes that's going to last right to the end of Stars. So they can start putting more attention on the villains, making them a bit more dynamic, and introducing supporting characters like Chibiusa, to redirect the focus and tell larger stories.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 12:05 PM #808
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Merlin wrote: View Post

Nearly every villain in history is cold and ruthless. Nothing new there. The more interesting ones challenge that coldness and ruthlessness to be something different. I'd almost call Kunzite as colourless and typical as Jadeite, were it not for his relationship with Zoisite which is at least a little interesting.
Not all of them, just look at the other 3, Kunzite and Zoisite had affection towards each other, Zoisite also got a rivalry due to his jealousy. Nepyhrite even turned good in the end. Even the queen had strong love.

Among them, Jadite had none, he simply was too professional for those, simply use everything to finish his goal that's all. He's not amazing but certainly ok for the mini boss in the beginning. He was also much more effective than his manga self.

I don't doubt his methods, but the rest smacks of desperation, a need to be seen as more than what he is. He uses the minion without permission, and then in his final task, he limps back to Beryl vainly hoping that information will save his life in place of failure.
He did collect some energies, if it wasn't the incident he might not suffer such fate. Of course, that was his folly.


Alitain wrote: View Post

Jadeite at least was interesting I felt in that he learned their identities and tried to bargain, but ultimately failed. But yeah, he's really just a set up; base villain. Kunzite was much the same, except he was more powerful and established as Beryl's right hand man. I wish we had had more with him but oh well. Technically the Four Kings were all kinda...basic. Even Nephrite. The only interesting thing about him was that he got a somewhat creepy affection for Naru that made him become good in the end. I still think that could've been done better, but in the end while it was interesting to see one of the generals turn "good", they were all simple villains.
Nephrite was also the most arrogant one among them. He even didn't obey the queen's order sometimes. He also said something like "I work for myself". And it's fair to say he was the most effective one.

His method was also quite unique, find certain individuals and expand their obsession to trigger the max energy.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 12:19 PM #809
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I have to say I love how the 1st season of the original anime is one huge, metaphor for a baby learning how to walk in life. Here we have "newborn" Usagi/Sailor Moon who is a crybaby early on in the series, and needs her parents: Luna and the Inner Senshi, to assist her & teach her how to walk. Usagi/Sailor Moon gradually learns throughout the 1st season how to walk, and in the season finale she's walking all on her own taking on Metalli-Beryl. I feel like it was very important for the development of Usagi's character in the 1st season that all of the Inner Senshi had died in the season finale. Parents cannot hold their baby's hand forever, and that baby has to learn how to walk all on its own. And Luna in the finale on the Tsukino roof having faith that Usagi is capable of walking now (at least in the DiC dub version, I know that in the original version Luna was crying because she didn't want Usagi to use the full power of the Silver Crystal and die) is a metaphor for a parent letting be, and trusting that their baby is now capable of walking on their own.

Granted Usagi does call on the spirits on the Inner Senshi to help her destroy Beryl because power of friendship, but I always interpreted that scene as showing us the differences between Usagi and Beryl as leaders. Beryl saw her generals as disposable while Usagi saw hers as friends.

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Old March 12th, 2018, 12:27 PM #810
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Slowpokeking wrote: View Post

Not all of them, just look at the other 3, Kunzite and Zoisite had affection towards each other, Zoisite also got a rivalry due to his jealousy. Nepyhrite even turned good in the end. Even the queen had strong love.

Among them, Jadite had none, he simply was too professional for those, simply use everything to finish his goal that's all. He's not amazing but certainly ok for the mini boss in the beginning. He was also much more effective than his manga self.
Bu you're just proving my point. I meant that the other generals are better than Jadeite because of their feelings, affections, turn from evil, etc. Jadeite lacking all of that means he's as bland as virtually any other TV villain who just wants to hurt people. You call it professional, but it makes him a very boring, predictable character, since it's all he's ever allowed to do.

The very first villain out of the gate is rarely that exciting. He needs to be someone who establishes that the Dark Kingdom are the bad guys to defeat, plain and simple, no shades of grey. Only after he dies, then we get a little more depth with another general's gradual change of heart, and showing that Dark Kingdom people can love each other. Jadeite is just the opening act.

PGSM did a much better job of making Jadeite more than just that: a character with his own insecurities over lack of experience but also unswerving loyalty to Beryl.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 07:12 PM #811
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Alright, I am currently rewatching Sailor Moon S, and I am at episode 110 where Haruka and Michiru died realizing that their pure hearts had two of the three talismans that they've been looking for this entire time. But, I had to stop because I just suddenly burst into laughter seeing Eudial control her booby traps with a foosball table set and fake playing an organ with a handheld stereo playing in the background and leaving a voice message in Haruka's voice mail because the previous recorded message was cut off too short. Okay, I have to ask. Was episode 110 of SMS meant to be taken very seriously or is it just straight-up unintentionally funny?! What do you think?!
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Old March 12th, 2018, 08:10 PM #812
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Sabanrangerfan Xman wrote: View Post

Alright, I am currently rewatching Sailor Moon S, and I am at episode 110 where Haruka and Michiru died realizing that their pure hearts had two of the three talismans that they've been looking for this entire time. But, I had to stop because I just suddenly burst into laughter seeing Eudial control her booby traps with a foosball table set and fake playing an organ with a handheld stereo playing in the background and leaving a voice message in Haruka's voice mail because the previous recorded message was cut off too short. Okay, I have to ask. Was episode 110 of SMS meant to be taken very seriously or is it just straight-up unintentionally funny?! What do you think?!
I always felt the show was much like PR, and like much anime/Japanese shows. A mix of serious and comedy. So while things are serious they like to toss in the comedy too. I'm seriously doubtful it's unintentional, they knew what they were doing. Remember the show was for kids, so they like to have that kinda comedy in such things.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 08:22 PM #813
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Oh yeah. Suuurre it's meant to be seen as a "kids' show". NOOOOTTT!!!!
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Old March 12th, 2018, 09:38 PM #814
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But Sailor Moon IS a kids show...
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Old March 12th, 2018, 11:03 PM #815
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Sabanrangerfan Xman wrote: View Post

Was episode 110 of SMS meant to be taken very seriously or is it just straight-up unintentionally funny?! What do you think?!
Neither, it's intentionally funny. The 90s anime has combined serious and dramatic scenes with comedic scenes from day one.


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Oh yeah. Suuurre it's meant to be seen as a "kids' show". NOOOOTTT!!!!
Yes? Of course it's a kids show.
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Old March 13th, 2018, 06:21 PM #816
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Merlin wrote: View Post

Bu you're just proving my point. I meant that the other generals are better than Jadeite because of their feelings, affections, turn from evil, etc. Jadeite lacking all of that means he's as bland as virtually any other TV villain who just wants to hurt people. You call it professional, but it makes him a very boring, predictable character, since it's all he's ever allowed to do.

The very first villain out of the gate is rarely that exciting. He needs to be someone who establishes that the Dark Kingdom are the bad guys to defeat, plain and simple, no shades of grey. Only after he dies, then we get a little more depth with another general's gradual change of heart, and showing that Dark Kingdom people can love each other. Jadeite is just the opening act.

PGSM did a much better job of making Jadeite more than just that: a character with his own insecurities over lack of experience but also unswerving loyalty to Beryl.
I don't think they are "better", just different. Of course he is not amazing as a villain, but ok for the mini boss in the beginning and more effective than his manga self.
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Old March 14th, 2018, 06:56 AM #817
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I got absolutely nothing on the original anime season Sailor Moon S. No, seriously! I got nothing. There isn't much for me to compare this version to the Crystal version at all. I mean, it's exactly the same story, but with slightly different interpretations in the Crystal version of the Infinity Arc, possibly a much better execution of re-introducting Sailor Pluto as her reincarnated form, Setsuna Meioh. A total different, but more sympathetic backstory on Hotaru's character. You actually get more screen time with Pharaoh 90, but with actual lines of dialogues since he's not just a big red hallow orb with tentacles like in the original version, more equal screen-time with the Witches 5, despite the fact that Eudial and Mimette's personalities and roles are different than in the original version. Same with Cyprine and Ptilol since they didn't really do much in the original, but just show up at the last minute, take on the Sailor Soldiers and accidentally die by their own hands via "friendly fire". Tellu's character is exactly the same as it was in both versions. But, I will say that she had three different ways to die in both versions. Viluy (Yui Bido)...nothing here. Still no difference here.

We do get to see more of the Mugen Academy as well as some excellent fight scenes outside and inside the academy. Plus, we actually do get to see Sailor Saturn semi-transformation scene and her performing her finisher attacks on Pharaoh 90 in the final battle as opposed to hearing some slashing attacks in the original version. Which leads us to the characters of Prof. Shuichi Tomoe, Kaorinite and Mistress 9. Well, Prof. Tomoe has two entirely different characters in the original and in the Crystal version, so there's not much I can say. Kaorinite had two entirely different roles in both versions, so you won't notice that much difference. However, she was given a fair share of screen-time as everyone else did in the Crystal version. And Mistress 9.....Yeah, I ain't touching on that one anytime soon. You ain't getting nothing from me about how her character in the original is different from the Crystal version. Oh and the ending for both versions are also different. It's just that Pluto mysteriously disappeared after she stopped time to save Uranus and Neptune from being killed by the remaining Daimons. But in the Crystal version, she is actually seen with Uranus and Neptune getting ready to depart with the reborn, yet infant Hotaru and acting as a secondary adopted mother to the child. Uranus and Neptune started criticizing Usagi for her actions in episode 125, despite the fact that she was getting stronger as a character and as a sailor soldier since her final battle with Queen Beryl and Queen Metallia in episode 46. So, she made a mistake. But at least, she learned from it as oppose to what those two dumb-asses failed to do in episode 125. So, yeah. Haruka and Michiru...y'all had no right to criticize the future Neo-Queen Serenity for her actions in the last episode, when you two did absolutely nothing to stop Pharaoh 90 from arriving on Earth, since y'all were pinned to the wall, but just watch. *pfft!* Hypocritical, self-righteous, dickheads!!! Seriously, Haruka and Michiru are just starting to act more like dicks in the original version by the time they make they return in Sailor Moon Sailor Stars. Nothing more, nothing less. Although, I can't argue with them for their actions in the majority of Sailor Moon S. But, I can't forgive them for what they're about to become later on the final season. So, get ready for venting once I start re-evaluating the final season, everybody.

But yeah. Uhmm....I am not seeing any other differences between the original version and the Crystal version of Sailor Moon S. Only a few minor details, but that's it.

In short, Sailor Moon S and Sailor Moon Crystal Season III....
-Same story
-Same characters
-Slightly different tones
-Minor alterations to the plot
-More equal screen-time with most of the villains in the Crystal version
-Different personalities and roles for the characters of Sailor Uranus, Sailor Neptune, Sailor Pluto, Dr. Tomoe, Kaorinite, Mistress 9, Pharaoh 90
-Different personality and backstory for Hotaru Tomoe in the Crystal version
-A much better, but slightly cooler fight scene for Sailor Saturn's character in the Crystal version
-Better usage of Tuxedo Mask's character in the Crystal version
-Different viewpoints of why the Outer Sailor Soldiers can't work with the Inner Sailor Soldiers, but with better reasons for Haruka, Michiru and Setsuna's characters in the Crystal version
-Two entirely different finales

That's it. That's all I can say. I am done. Now, if you'll excuse me. I am about to start watching the subbed version of Sailor Moon SuperS since Viz Media are still in the production of re-dubbing the entire season and well, I am just gonna have to be prepared for what the Crystal version of the Dreams Arc (Dead Moon Circus arc) has in store for us fans once after the two movies are theatrically released, they will be available to stream online and then later they'll be released on Blu-Ray and DVD in the West.

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Old March 14th, 2018, 07:22 AM #818
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This is the main thrust of why Haruka and Michiru are two of the most misguided characters in the series, even as fans adore their personalities. They were written as foils to Usagi and the Inner Senshi: older people who underestimate the power of emotions despite their experiences.

Once they know Sailor Moon's identity, H&M refuse to see anything beyond Usagi's clumsy crybaby personality. She can't fight, she's no warrior. Haruka even stole Usagi's powers to prove their point, and only tosses it back at her when she's resigned to her fate and tells her to find the Messiah.

But Haruka & Michiru weren't around for the previous years when the sheer power of Usagi's love was enough to defeat final bosses. Her closest friends the Inner Senshi know this and put themselves in harm's way, often getting killed, so that Usagi can live to triumph in the end. They know her true power comes from her emotions. She has no need to be a good fighter, but H&M haven't had proof of that.

Even after Usagi defeated Pharaoh 90, H&M refuse to believe in her, because they had her figured out a long time ago. They know what kind of a person she truly is: a whining, simple-minded fraud whose emotions are her flaw. She doesn't deserve to be the Messiah. How can that be logical when they've spent years fighting stronger monsters with stronger powers over these kids, and her greatest skill is wolfing chocolate sundaes?!

So they do the only thing they know how: they fight Usagi. And they lose to her power that has nothing to do with fighting. Once she knocks them down a peg, they become Usagi's most fervent protectors. They're so loyal that it even causes complications in Stars when they want to put a wedge between Usagi and Seiya.

I've sometimes seen fans say Haruka and Michiru should have been the Queens of Crystal Tokyo instead of Usagi. But that contradicts the entire point of the series to have people who coldly dismiss emotions as weakness be seen as the ideal. Their ruthlessness is their undoing.
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Old March 14th, 2018, 07:58 AM #819
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Musashi wrote: View Post

But Sailor Moon IS a kids show...
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Yes? Of course it's a kids show.
And this is my response or reaction, whichever way.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfzwFloVqA

_____________________________________________________

But still, I am going to have a blast ranting about the final season of the original anime. It's going to be gooooooooood!!!
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Old March 14th, 2018, 08:30 AM #820
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S was great due to the conflict between the inner 5 and Haruka & Michiru.
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