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Old June 24th, 2016, 07:28 AM #41
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Raiden wrote: View Post

This. I spent years working with Polish, Lithuanian and Czech people and even becoming friends, going out for meals to the bar and even helping one couple learn English. I had to train people who didnt speak my language how to operate large industrial machinery ( which is hard enough trying to educate people who speak english ) and while i was doing this i was fully aware what was going on because people in lower positions than me were being replaced. Its got nothing to do with them vs us. I live in a small town, 1 row of shops but a bunch of factories. And all the factories like to Employ outsiders. So of course it effects me heavily.

There does come a time when you need to look after your own people though. Just because i value myself, and my own people having jobs and income over other people it doesnt mean i am trying to stick it to them. Id venture to guess most the people casting aspersions havent even met a polish, czech or lithuanian. And it clearly doesnt effect them either way because if they were given the opportunity to donate their job to somebody else they wouldnt care what the other persons living situation was they would tell them to go get their own job.
Here's the problem: Is it the immigrants or is it the factories who are doing the actual hiring who are to blame? Are the factories loyal to your people or are they looking to fatten their wallets by hiring cheaper labor?

Also, what does meeting Polish, Czech, or Lithuanian people have to do with a person's opinion on job security and immigration reform?
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Old June 24th, 2016, 08:05 AM #42
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Why do people continue to say it was about immigration? Immigration was one small part of the argument but sadly got used by far right and far left as scare tactics.

As for the above, in my experience, the companies hire Europeans as they get a grant for each person they take on (that is coming into country to work, this doesn't apply to immigrants here already)

The hotel I worked in used to to save money, they got grants and brought them over by the bus load every few months. Not only did they get the grant, but because it was a hotel they gave them living quarters and charged them rent and food etc out of their wage packets each week, again returning money to the company.

However, immigration was only one very small part of the argument. And it was to control migration, not send them all home etc as some said. Currently UK has uncontrolled immigration where anyone can come and go.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 08:21 AM #43
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Morgan Stanley's 2,000 investment staff are to be shipped from London to Dublin or Frankfurt

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/stat...26583942782976
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Old June 24th, 2016, 08:21 AM #44
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MerCurrySoul wrote: View Post

Dude, we're equally as fucked here, man.

Go to Canada, it's the perfect crime!
They have a different problem there. Giant robot problems.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 08:32 AM #45
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Random wrote: View Post

There are some reasonable reasons to have wanted to leave, but much like with Scottish referendum, much of the leave campaign was centred around "freedom!", national pride and "dey took err jurbs!" with little actual education about what leaving would mean for the country in the long term.
Actually, the independence campaign in Scotland was not centered around "freedom" or national pride. It was actually centered around creating a positive vision of what we could do as an independent nation. As for "dey took err jurbs"...that never came up in Scotland, because as we proved last night, we're an inclusive and outward-looking country.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 08:59 AM #46
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darkshadowranger wrote: View Post

Why do people continue to say it was about immigration? Immigration was one small part of the argument but sadly got used by far right and far left as scare tactics.

As for the above, in my experience, the companies hire Europeans as they get a grant for each person they take on (that is coming into country to work, this doesn't apply to immigrants here already)

The hotel I worked in used to to save money, they got grants and brought them over by the bus load every few months. Not only did they get the grant, but because it was a hotel they gave them living quarters and charged them rent and food etc out of their wage packets each week, again returning money to the company.

However, immigration was only one very small part of the argument. And it was to control migration, not send them all home etc as some said. Currently UK has uncontrolled immigration where anyone can come and go.
I understand that Brexit isn't solely about immigration. I was responding to Raiden's post which happened to hit on that portion of the much larger issue. Immigration, in and of itself, is a large topic of discussion around the world and that is why it is being brought up so much in regards to Brexit. When terms such as independence and sovereignty are thrown into the mix of broader discussion regarding a sovereign state and its place on the global stage, it's inevitable that this topic will be brought up.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 08:59 AM #47
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What an absolutely boneheaded decision.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 10:03 AM #48
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RedRanger87 wrote: View Post

Also, what does meeting Polish, Czech, or Lithuanian people have to do with a person's opinion on job security and immigration reform?
For clarification, the first part of my post was a short story of my background of my first hand experience with the issue that was being discussed to put out some legitimacy to my words and show im not a xenophobe nor racist in any sense of the words. The 2nd part of my post was taking a dig at the people that try to act informed for the sake of taking some fictitious moral highground by saying stuff like " they took our jobs hur hur " to belittle a real situation with the ironic thing being these people have probably never even met any of these workers let alone had it effect their lives in anyway and they are just saying these things to be an internet hero. People trying to act like something isnt a problem, because it isnt a problem for them and then acting smarmy about it is infuriating.

As for immigration reform, i dont know why you ask. My topic was Eu agency workers, they are not immigrants. They get timed contracts of which to come and work.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 10:28 AM #49
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Raiden wrote: View Post

For clarification, the first part of my post was a short story of my background of my first hand experience with the issue that was being discussed to put out some legitimacy to my words and show im not a xenophobe nor racist in any sense of the words. The 2nd part of my post was taking a dig at the people that try to act informed for the sake of taking some fictitious moral highground by saying stuff like " they took our jobs hur hur " to belittle a real situation with the ironic thing being these people have probably never even met any of these workers let alone had it effect their lives in anyway and they are just saying these things to be an internet hero. People trying to act like something isnt a problem, because it isnt a problem for them and then acting smarmy about it is infuriating.

As for immigration reform, i dont know why you ask. My topic was Eu agency workers, they are not immigrants. They get timed contracts of which to come and work.
When I initially read your post, it seemed as if the second portion was a bit of a contrast to the first. Now that you've clarified, I clearly understand your position.

To clarify why I'm asking: I'm a US/EU citizen. I'm a Polish American who was born in the United States. However, I have family in Poland (some of which have emigrated here to the US, but most have a history of traveling back and forth) and I have a cousin who is currently working in the UK. From what I have read online and have been told by family, it does seem that there is some ire towards Polish workers, whether they are EU Agency Workers or not. Even if they are different, it seems that there is a bit of a blurred line in regards to their treatment. This is why I was interested in your clarification and experience.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 10:33 AM #50
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RedRanger87 wrote: View Post

From what I have read online and have been told by family, it does seem that there is some ire towards Polish workers, whether they are EU Agency Workers or not. Even if they are different, it seems that there is a bit of a blurred line in regards to their treatment. This is why I was interested in your clarification and experience.
Nearly all the people i met were great, i mentioned a couple i helped to learn English and the couple were a polish man and wife who wanted to live in the UK full time. It was actually quite flattering. The nicest people youd ever meet. My uncle actually owns several properties and 2 of his houses were used to house some of these workers and he sort of paired with the agency where the deal was the agency would cover their cost by taking it out of their wages and paying my uncle through it. Its not the people themselves that people have a negative reaction to. its just the idea of the situation because we do have a stupid amount of our own unemployed. ( its not specifically polish, its just whichever outside ethnicity is most abundant in that area )
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Old June 24th, 2016, 11:05 AM #51
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RedRanger87 wrote: View Post

When I initially read your post, it seemed as if the second portion was a bit of a contrast to the first. Now that you've clarified, I clearly understand your position.

To clarify why I'm asking: I'm a US/EU citizen. I'm a Polish American who was born in the United States. However, I have family in Poland (some of which have emigrated here to the US, but most have a history of traveling back and forth) and I have a cousin who is currently working in the UK. From what I have read online and have been told by family, it does seem that there is some ire towards Polish workers, whether they are EU Agency Workers or not. Even if they are different, it seems that there is a bit of a blurred line in regards to their treatment. This is why I was interested in your clarification and experience.
Back in my grandfather's time, animosity toward people of Polish descent here in America was at an all-time high. He still occasionally tells jokes about "Pollacks" (I don't even know if the word is offensive anymore, but it was then) and how dumb they were. Which is funny, because he was a country boy who never had to deal with any sort of immigrants. Hell, his little town didn't even have any black people in it, and yet he ended up with racist tendencies anyway. The only non-Anglo whites in the area were a group of Syrian Orthodox Christians that set up a general store. The rest of the town referred to them as "the Jews", for reasons that escape me.

...

Sorry, don't know how I got off on that tangent. My grandfather is a wonderful man, but he's unfortunately a product of his time.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 11:07 AM #52
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My granddad voted Leave while telling me he didn't think old people should be allowed to vote.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 11:14 AM #53
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HowlingSnail wrote: View Post

My granddad voted Leave while telling me he didn't think old people should be allowed to vote.
Maybe he thinks "we're all young at heart"?
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Old June 24th, 2016, 11:38 AM #54
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Cameron Samurai wrote: View Post

Nicola Sturgeon has confirmed a second Scottish referendum is on the table



I'm not too surprised. He'd been indicating he'd only serve two terms anyway (even using a weird "Shredded Wheat" analogy to describe this strategy last year), he's just had to call time on this term early.

Oh Nigel
Honestly jimmy krankie has just been waiting for a opportunity to do another independence vote since she did not like the answer to the last one.

As for leaving, the EU does not work for everyone, it has become inflexible and mutated beyond what it was originally intended to be. We asked for something to change they refused outright yet the EU itself is none sustainable as it is, at least with the uk leaving it has actually shocked the EU rulers to wake up and they have to take a long look at themselves since their 2nd biggest contributor has left. With regard to trade it's still in their best interests to trade with UK as who else will Germany sell all their cars to? I doubt the business leaders in the EU will appreciate it should the EU try to price any agreement out of reach.

It might be a shock but it is a well needed shock to get them to look at themselves and hopefully realise they need to get back to being good for the people, don't forget the anti-EU movement was not unique to the uk and has been gaming much momentum over the last year, there are other countries that wish to try and follow suit.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 11:52 AM #55
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Economic wise, I think the UK is in for a nice long recession to put it lightly. I won't get into David Cameron because you can check my twitter for that. I feel bad for the UK, I really do. This is going to have repercussions around the world too. With other countries wanting to jump ship too, this is going to get real ugly, real fast.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 11:54 AM #56
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-to-leave-it/

The whole world is reeling after a milestone referendum in Britain to leave the European Union. And although leaders of the campaign to exit Europe are crowing over their victory, it seems many Britons may not even know what they had actually voted for.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 11:58 AM #57
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I was talking to my father about that just an hour ago, was meaning to post it.

Alex Jones (of infowars, not the One Show host) is of course praising this decision and calling on all info warriors to be the tip of the sphere.

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Old June 24th, 2016, 12:05 PM #58
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Ain't that the truth. This is going to be bad, and the people swept up in the moment aren't going to know what hit them.

As a american, who's sick of his own country's status quo, let me just say I get it. It wasn't entirely the right wingers that were driving this. There's real issues that need to be addressed, and at the end of the day, people just wanted change.

The consequences though, might prove this to be a bad one.

Now I've a question for any folks from Scotland. I follow politics in a few other countries besides my own, and the vote to gain your independence was an interesting subject. How exactly did the final tally break down? I seem to recall it was close, but I admit that i'm fuzzy on the details.

I ask because you might be having another, and i'm not sure the same result will happen.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 12:15 PM #59
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John Oliver had a fabulous piece on his show about Brexit. You may not like the EU but you need it.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 12:20 PM #60
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Calamity00-83 wrote: View Post

snip
It was 55.3% for remain.
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