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Old January 21st, 2019, 05:24 PM #1641
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MrArcade wrote: View Post

Guys, what is this story about the "death of Power Rangers" by MMPRtoys and other fans ?
Bruno (MMPRtoys) was in a meeting with YouTube and they told him to change the focus of his channel because Power Rangers is and I quote "A dead brand that nobody cares about and that nobody is searching for."
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Old January 21st, 2019, 05:34 PM #1642
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Lordoftherangers wrote: View Post

Bruno (MMPRtoys) was in a meeting with YouTube and they told him to change the focus of his channel because Power Rangers is and I quote "A dead brand that nobody cares about and that nobody is searching for."
A dead brand ! No, not after comic releases, DVD Sentai, video games etc ... there are still people who love these super heroes
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Old January 21st, 2019, 05:34 PM #1643
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MrArcade wrote: View Post

there are still people who love these super heroes
Pffft. Losers.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 05:39 PM #1644
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Judge Joker wrote: View Post

Pffft. Losers.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 05:50 PM #1645
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SonicBlueRanger wrote: View Post

I don't see why shows are allowed to have one million straight characters but the minute someone suggests that a character is LGBT that's a problem.
Because to a significant proportion of the adult population of the United States (at least 30%) and a much greater proportion around the world (PR is a global brand, after all) LGBT issues are political and extremely offensive -especially when introduced to their children without parental consent. Even people who are not particularly conservative or political see LGBT issues as inherently sexual, and there's no better way to piss off parents than talking to their children about sexuality. There's a reason even basic sex-ed in schools often requires parental consent waivers and the like.

This might not be an issue to series such as Adventure Time or Good Luck Charlie which thrive on publicity and age-diverse viewership (Steven Universe has especially benefited from exactly this), but for a series like Power Rangers that lives or dies on toy sales, pissing off the middle and upper-middle class soccer moms who buy the Megazords for their kids is basically suicide.

Xenotome wrote: View Post

It is not 1985. The idea of an LGBT character existing making a measurable difference in sales is silly.
Well, that depends on how subtle and tactful they are about it. Something like Trini's characterization in the 2017 movie probably flies right above the heads of the ignorant, but a properly established LGBT romance or other such overt themes would 100% invoke the ire of the paying consumers I described above. Even something as innocuous as the same-sex family in Good Luck Charlie invited tons of hatemail and even death threats from angry parents.

Also, I'm not sure what the current date has to do with it. Homophobia is alive and thriving in most parts of the world.

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Kids aren't looking for anything in anything. That's not a reason why you don't explore something especially with a show that touts instilling good values.
I'm not sure how many people would agree that LGBT representation on a children's show constitutes "instilling good values."
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Old January 21st, 2019, 06:00 PM #1646
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norik434 wrote: View Post

I'm not sure how many people would agree that LGBT representation on a children's show constitutes "instilling good values."
People who believe in representing all manner of humanity...
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Old January 21st, 2019, 06:28 PM #1647
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Lordoftherangers wrote: View Post

Bruno (MMPRtoys) was in a meeting with YouTube and they told him to change the focus of his channel because Power Rangers is and I quote "A dead brand that nobody cares about and that nobody is searching for."
He met with A Youtube advisor, not all of Youtube.

norik434 wrote: View Post

Because to a significant proportion of the adult population of the United States (at least 30%) and a much greater proportion around the world (PR is a global brand, after all) LGBT issues are political and extremely offensive -especially when introduced to their children without parental consent.
Current standing of support of LGBT people in the US last stood at 75%. Support of gay marriage is at 67%.

Even people who are not particularly conservative or political see LGBT issues as inherently sexual, and there's no better way to piss off parents than talking to their children about sexuality.
Yes. It pretty much is just conservatives. And not even most conservatives, it's pretty much the hardline conservatives.

There's a reason even basic sex-ed in schools often requires parental consent waivers and the like.
Here's the thing... this isn't about sex.

but for a series like Power Rangers that lives or dies on toy sales, pissing off the middle and upper-middle class soccer moms who buy the Megazords for their kids is basically suicide.
How old do you think those parents are? Because currently they'd be mostly under the age of 30 which when it was last checked in 2016 had a overwhelming support of LGBT rights at 80% and that has surely only grown...

Also, I'm not sure what the current date has to do with it. Homophobia is alive and thriving in most parts of the world.
In case you haven't peered out the window lately so is racism but we have black folk on the TV screen. Hell on Power Rangers we have interracial relationships...

I'm not sure how many people would agree that LGBT representation on a children's show constitutes "instilling good values."
Oh I do! Over 80% of the US people age 18-30 prime parenthood age.

Power Rangers didn't wait for the majority of America to be OK with having black people on TV. This idea the existence of a gay or bi or lesbian character on Power Rangers has to wait until the entire world is on board is ludicrous.

If you wanna continue pandering to the dregs of society you do that, but I'll be here pushing for them to entire the 21st century or they can wither in their irrelevancy as their minority becomes smaller and smaller.

Last edited by Xenotome; January 21st, 2019 at 07:11 PM.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 07:09 PM #1648
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Ideally, I'd like PR to tackle LGBT issues in their shows, but I'm not sure if we're quite there yet. I think they should just start with treating it casually. As in, characters mention incidentally "I'm going to the movies with my boyfriend" or have a character with two moms. Things that normalize being gay or bi for children but could easily be explained away in foreign translations if it's really an "issue".
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Old January 21st, 2019, 07:16 PM #1649
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norik434 wrote: View Post

Because to a significant proportion of the adult population of the United States (at least 30%) and a much greater proportion around the world (PR is a global brand, after all) LGBT issues are political and extremely offensive -especially when introduced to their children without parental consent. Even people who are not particularly conservative or political see LGBT issues as inherently sexual, and there's no better way to piss off parents than talking to their children about sexuality. There's a reason even basic sex-ed in schools often requires parental consent waivers and the like.

This might not be an issue to series such as Adventure Time or Good Luck Charlie which thrive on publicity and age-diverse viewership (Steven Universe has especially benefited from exactly this), but for a series like Power Rangers that lives or dies on toy sales, pissing off the middle and upper-middle class soccer moms who buy the Megazords for their kids is basically suicide.


Well, that depends on how subtle and tactful they are about it. Something like Trini's characterization in the 2017 movie probably flies right above the heads of the ignorant, but a properly established LGBT romance or other such overt themes would 100% invoke the ire of the paying consumers I described above. Even something as innocuous as the same-sex family in Good Luck Charlie invited tons of hatemail and even death threats from angry parents.

Also, I'm not sure what the current date has to do with it. Homophobia is alive and thriving in most parts of the world.


I'm not sure how many people would agree that LGBT representation on a children's show constitutes "instilling good values."
Here's the thing. even in those TV shows, the LGBT characters are toned down. They're just a prop, a passing mention, background . Many of the characters don't have good development and when they try to give them a story they fail. And a relationship is out of the question. There is a reason why shows such as Legend of Korra only confirmed a relationship last episode, this was a show that was off air. Andi Mack is currently doing a poor job with their LGBT character and it was after the outrage. Hell even teen shows on TV (CW, Freeform, MTV) do an awful job showcasing their LGBT characters and their sexuality. I don't have confidence in PR to even have one in the foreseeable decade.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 07:18 PM #1650
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I think I said this before, (or someone did) but I'd rather get to a point where the writers can do a "Don't lie" moral well before trying to handle anything bigger.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 07:32 PM #1651
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Yeah... given what we've recently gotten, I don't want these writers touching something like that. The show could do it, you can't let the bigots dictate that or else you wouldn't have anything new but, we ain't there yet with these writers. Let's see them address race first.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 07:34 PM #1652
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Yeah, if we're using current writing as a reason why to not do it... that's valid. Got to show they're able to crawl before they can walk.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 07:39 PM #1653
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Jadentheman wrote: View Post

Freeform do an awful job showcasing their LGBT characters and their sexuality
It can vary from show to show on Freeform. Some do it better than others.

But I agree with the consensus that the show needs to master basic morals first before diving into the deep end.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 08:14 PM #1654
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

How old do you think those parents are? Because currently they'd be mostly under the age of 30
Is this true though? Religious conservatives (and here I include both Americans and immigrants from places like Latin America, the Middle East, and South Asia) have notably higher fertility rates and tend to marry younger than liberals, many of whom are now choosing to be childless. There's also the fact that westerners in general are having fewer children and later in life. The children of liberal Millennials are still very much not main demographic for this series, although in fairness their proportion is obviously growing.

Yes. It pretty much is just conservatives. And not even most conservatives, it's pretty much the hardline conservatives.
Says who? Just because the opinion polling indicates they don't mind gay marriage legally that doesn't mean they'd be okay with LGBT topics being discussed their children's television. Not defending this position, just pointing out that public opinion isn't quite as accepting as you seem to think.

Here's the thing... this isn't about sex.
Well yeah no shit. Try explaining that to Catholic soccer moms though.

Also the implication that race and sexual orientation are even remotely comparable in terms of public opinion is absolutely laughable. Bill Cosby and Oprah were easily the two most influential people on television a decade prior to MMPR. Racists lose their jobs and get publicly humiliated for sharing their views. They have for decades, all across the civilized world. Meanwhile, "gay" is still among the most common insults in middle schools today.

Besides, these discussions are always too American-centric in my view. My point remains that most of the world remains deeply homophobic, especially rising markets in Asia and Latin America. It's hard to tell how much of an impact these could have on an American production, but Hollywood has been actively courting the Chinese and Mexican markets for almost a decade now. I know from personal experience that Power Rangers has a substantial following in South America.

If you wanna continue pandering to the dregs of society you do that, but I'll be here pushing for them to entire the 21st century or they can wither in their irrelevancy as their minority becomes smaller and smaller.
It's not "pandering" to anyone. My point here is that LGBT issues (especially as they relate to children) remain deeply controversial even as public opinion has improved toward them. They remain, unfortunately, political to most people. And the last thing Power Rangers needs is fucking politics.

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Old January 21st, 2019, 08:33 PM #1655
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Unless there's also a stigmatizing of LGBT in the Ranger universe, it shouldn't be hard to do, rather a matter of acceptance by the audience. The identifying factor isn't obvious unless a romance plot is used or the character makes advances to other same sex rangers or people.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 09:05 PM #1656
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kibapower wrote: View Post

Unless there's also a stigmatizing of LGBT in the Ranger universe, it shouldn't be hard to do, rather a matter of acceptance by the audience. The identifying factor isn't obvious unless a romance plot is used or the character makes advances to other same sex rangers or people.
Or gay bullying and/or homophobia (outside of high school setting). And bullying itself is rather simplistically done in PR. And in terms of social phobias, I don't think that's been tackled yet.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 09:36 PM #1657
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Jadentheman wrote: View Post

Or gay bullying and/or homophobia (outside of high school setting). And bullying itself is rather simplistically done in PR. And in terms of social phobias, I don't think that's been tackled yet.
We've had snippets of phobias dealing with bullies or disagreeable people, it doesn't need to be much more complex. For LGBT, treating the character as normal ( and not killing them off) would be the better solution. Though, to simplify transgender, I can see it being done through an alien race before a human one.
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Old January 22nd, 2019, 12:52 AM #1658
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big smile wrote: View Post

I might be using the preschool term wrong, but there's no denying that the way DCS1 treated it's audience and the way Nstl treats it's audience are two very different things.
No one is denying it. But the point I was making was that preschool is definitely the wrong term there. I want to really drive that home because it's truly over exaggerating the problem and that can distract from the actual flaws that need confronting. Because if you call it preschool then you're generalizing the whole, missing the parts that do work and could work, and not really acknowledging what really does need fixing. It's more like an "Its all bad, burn it down and start over" approach and that's a bad way to look at this scenario.

Basically, it's just a bad way to talk about what's actually wrong about the show that gives people a different problem to solve than the real one.

norik434 wrote: View Post

What I'm getting at is that there is clear growth in a lot of these characters which simply isn't present in more recent seasons.
I don't know if I'd say clear growth. More like "Problem A stops being a problem and we move on as a story to problem B or just drop problems for that character entirely".

Consider Sky. Yes, he's kind of an asshole and a bit one-dimensional at times. However, there's a believable and evident change between the arrogant Sky at the beginning of the series and the one at the end who would accept Syd as his superior.
I don't think there is. I think they end by saying there is, but all we've seen of that is when the episode calls for it, he says he would follow Syd. Before that he was still being the arrogant Sky, it would only change depending on the lesson of the day. Same with everyone else's problems and growth, SPD made it all episodic and it'd all return the next time they needed focus or a new problem would come out of nowhere. Unless you were Syd or Z, who got nothing after their initial focus episodes. There are better series for character growth and worse ones, but SPD's got a really unique episodic formula to it that sort of gets hidden by having a better overarching storyline.

In contrast Preston is a very accurate depiction of a nerd, but little else. Aside from progressively becoming a better magician because of things that just happen to him, he doesn't really change much throughout the course of the season.
That better magician part though is a significant change and shouldn't be overlooked. Because that's such a major part of his character, seeing him go from having trouble with a cheap box to being able to summon actual spells from the magic books he keeps randomly acquiring does alter his behavior. Part of it is the acting though. He goes from gangly awkward to confident body language by the end of the series. It's not perfect, but none of the character development in any series of PR is, and that's really my point. The standard for what qualifies as "good character development" seems to change series by series, person by person, solely based on if it was liked or not, and not on how it functions in the story.

This is a very fair point. Zyuohger and Kyuranger in particular felt a lot like Neo-Saban in this regard, and the non-red Kyoryugers might as well have been Megaforce characters with slightly better acting. I don't know how readily I would blame Toei though, considering how mediocre sentai such as Gingaman or Go-Onger have given us some of the best and most original PR seasons. PR's only required loyalty is to the action sequences after all.
Well, Toei is to blame for the sentai entirely. I think a lot of people overlook the fact the Sentai aims even younger than PR does and is far more open about it. With that in mind, there's only so much you can do with the footage given and the source material aesthetics. Sometimes you have to match the series closer, sometimes you try something unique and it fails like giving an admittedly clustermess of a ninja series a high school based adaptation. Which always felt like a Saban demand because of the movie coming out.

As for Go-Onger and Gingaman, you're missing a key part of the ingredient for those shows. They weren't supposed to exist as PR. PRIS was it, but then they found out they'd get another show and put in some crazy effort that resulted in a lot of behind the scenes nonsense that ultimately hurt the series. I really don't think Lost Galaxy is a series worth praising for story telling unless you just want to talk about giving Red rangers all the focus to the point you can almost completely write some of the other rangers out and it'd change almost nothing about the series. RPM was good because it was supposed to be different and something beyond what the show was designed to be. It had freedom no other series got, and even then it still cost the original showrunner his job midway through. Basically, when PR is told there is no tomorrow, it gets the freedom to run wild, but again, that's because it's being made with the idea there is no tomorrow. When you're cancelled you don't have to worry about selling toys again next year.

And of course, there's still plenty of great material that went straight to the trash bin, like Gosei Knight or literally all of Gokaiger.
That's entirely on Tzachor and that is a problem that has been solved.

While this sounds right to me, I'd say there's significant overlap between this and the slightly older audience you're alluding to. Why not tap both?
....They are. One bad series is not indicative of the whole franchise, let's not assume Ninja steel is the standard bearer for this show, especially when the showrunners have expressed dissatisfaction with what they made in Steel and the bigger room to play Hasbro is giving them for Beast Morphers.

Is this really true? Marvel and Star Wars have been extraordinarily successful for over a decade now, and if anything with the superhero burn a lot of people have been experiencing lately now would be the perfect time to tap into this audience with something refreshing like a MCU-esque take on PR.
Yes. Marvel and Start Wars are a whole different animal and are not the kind of thing you can really compare PR to or should. They've never not been successful, but the level they've reached in the last decade is why smaller franchises can struggle, The room for competition is too small, big fish get the most food essentially. PR is a small franchise compared to those guys. It's audience is smaller, it's older audience even smaller than that.Even just older kids, because they have more options that target them specifically and aren't worried about competition from the likes of PR.

It's part of why the Lionsgate movie didn't work out. It didn't appeal to a wide enough audience.

I'm not too familiar with the Transformers market but this sounds reasonable. However, considering the Transformers movies are PG-13, wouldn't this make the optimal PR market more like 8-11 year olds?
The TF movie is just one part of the wider TF brand, though. The movies are for the wider older audience, they aren't funded solely by their toy sales. Transformers has it's tv show for the 8-11 year old demographic. Also, realistically, PG13 is a meaningless rating and those kids are still seeing that film franchise too, hence why the movies sell so many toys anyway. TF has been eating up that demographic for nearly a decade before PR was even created.

AdamOfGotham wrote: View Post

How sad would it be if the future of Power Rangers on television under Hasbro is dumbed down kindergarten level writing and fart jokes?
Fart jokes are never going away. Get over the fart jokes. Kids love them. Nickelodeon was built on them. Minions made them unavoidable for any kids show. There's nothing inherently wrong with having fart jokes. They're better than "scared of a chicken" jokes, at least.

Lordoftherangers wrote: View Post

Again I am not being unreasonable. Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Legend of Korra, Good Luck Charlie, Clarence, Gravity Falls and multiple 2010's animated Disney movies have LGBT characters and they are all for children.
But not the same age range of children, and most of those series really end up being written for an older audience under the guise of a younger children's show. They're trojan cartoons, pitched as cheap goofy kids shows but delivering deep groundbreaking stuff by the end. For every one of those type's there's a hundred who aren't concerned with that process and just want to entertain the kids they were pitched for and what's wrong with that?

I think that's my biggest problem with this complaint. What's wrong with PR just being a dumb fun action show? Why does it need to be more than that now, when it's never tried to be anything more in 25 years? Why change now? Especially if other, more qualified shows are covering that kind of topic better than it ever could?

But we have gotten close to that in pre-neo saban seasons of the show which is what I keep on saying but for some reason people think it is unfair to compare Power Rangers to itself.
When? No, wait, close to what? What did it get close to and how? Your description of the show often seems like a different show than what I watched. I saw a cheesy live action cartoon that had fun characters that made me want to keep tuning in, but was never something that made me think it was more than what it said it was. A formulaic action show that is fun to watch for its crazy tropes and unique concepts you don't get in other shows. It kind of feels like you're saying it's wrong to enjoy it for what it is, honestly.

AkaGreenPrimo wrote: View Post

It is weird they've never touched on that, when we've had stories following a deaf character and a blind character. Especially when such a large amount of the Power Rangers audience has autism.
That was the point of Billy in the movie. That was actually the entire conversation about adding that to Billy's character. That's almost entirely why Billy was the best character in the movie, for that part of the audience.

Cuchulainn wrote: View Post

I don't know. Maybe read about it yourself and find out?
Don't do that. What does this do but kill a conversation and annoy the person asking for help? This kind of behavior is really uncalled for and should be frowned upon. If you don't know or don't want to answer the question, don't respond. This essentially reads as instigating this way.
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Old January 22nd, 2019, 01:17 AM #1659
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Fart jokes are never going away. Get over the fart jokes. Kids love them. Nickelodeon was built on them. Minions made them unavoidable for any kids show. There's nothing inherently wrong with having fart jokes. They're better than "scared of a chicken" jokes, at least.
I think both of those things are really debatable.

What's wrong with PR just being a dumb fun action show?
But this I agree with.
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Old January 22nd, 2019, 02:09 AM #1660
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

When? No, wait, close to what? What did it get close to and how? Your description of the show often seems like a different show than what I watched. I saw a cheesy live action cartoon that had fun characters that made me want to keep tuning in, but was never something that made me think it was more than what it said it was. A formulaic action show that is fun to watch for its crazy tropes and unique concepts you don't get in other shows. It kind of feels like you're saying it's wrong to enjoy it for what it is, honestly.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying Power Rangers has had substance before and I don't think its wrong to want it back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsArfFqFVU0

I'm going to let Linkara explain it because he put it way better than I can. It's from his HOPR: Megaforce part 5 video. From 3:48 to 4:41 he explains exactly what I'm trying to say.
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