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Old December 24th, 2009, 11:52 PM #61
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CobraMorphBT20 wrote: View Post

...he special effects & sound effects were horrible...
What movie did you watch? I can perfectly understand and respect your opinion of not liking the movie based on its content, but do not stand there and tell me this movie "looked" terrible. Say what you will about the story. Say what you will about reboots. Say what you will about origins. But this movie looked damned gorgeous. The ships never looked and felt more real and tangible.

And on the basis of having Nemoy handing the torch over to the new cast, the point of revisiting this era, and changing it via alternate universe, was to reintroduce a new generation to the likes of the classic characters and settings. Sorry, this isn't your old Star Trek, rife with political commentary of the 1960's and plagued by comical special effects. Paramount was well aware of the dangers of revisiting and reengaging the classic era; namely, alienating the die hard classic trekkers. It's unfortunate that the film indeed do just that. But frankly, given he alternative of what we trekkers have been given these past years, this film is exactly the kind of rejuvenation this franchise needed.

I had a very lively discussion about the film with perhaps the most die hard of die hard trekkers a few weeks ago. He hated the film in every conceivable way. And it really boiled down to his nostalgia locking his mind up good and tight. He could never imagine another soul portraying Kirk. He damned the producers for killing Vulcan. He refused to understand the concept of multiple universes, and tried to lecture me on warp theory and how Scotty's transwarp beaming technique was bunk (of which, I convinced him otherwise using real-world physics).

Ultimately, what made Star Trek Star Trek to a lot of people were Kirk and Spock. Hell, even Doohan cursed The Next Generation at first, because it had nothing to do with the original crew.

This is a new Kirk and Spock. They don't pretend to be the old Kirk and Spock. And they will never be the old Kirk and Spock. Your Star Trek is preserved in your countless classic DVD boxed set releases.

For any old story to stand the test of the current generation, it needs to be reinvented in some fashion. That's just the way things work. You look at any "retelling" of any story, and no matter how true to the core it may seem, it's a reinvention that depicts the status of our world in that moment in time. Even the work of Shakespeare, all of his poetic and alliterative words fully preserved and intact, is constantly retold with new twists and new actors portraying his classic tales.

ZeroXMarquis wrote: View Post

I cannot stand reboots...
Deja vu.

I'm going to simply agree to disagree with you, since we've already had lengthy discussions about that particular issue. Though I will point to my response above and remind you that "reboots" will never ever go away so long as people crave entertainment. People fall in love with characters; and when most of what can be told about them has been told -- or when their relevance ceases to be, well, relevant, then they need to have some kind of re-engagement. Don't like it? That's a shame. Stand aside and let those of us who are interested in change be entertained and enthralled.

And for what it's worth, it didn't recruit new Star Trek fans. That's like saying pedophiles can recruit more fans for child pornography by raising the age of the actors to that of 18, and only have them played by willing participants. It changed the definition of a Star Trek fan to make it more palatable for the masses.
I'm going to call shenanigans on this comparison. The comparison to pedophiles notwithstanding... You need to define exactly what you consider a "Star Trek fan" to be. Did the film recruit more die-hard followers fluent in Klingon and cooks who can conjure up Vulcan delicacies? Not very many, I'd agree. Did it garner more interest into the franchise than its past movie and TV attempts? From the conversations I've had with non-Trekkers, I'd say yes, the film was very successful in broadening the appeal of the franchise.

Ultimately, you're right about the idea of a franchise needing to be profitable. If a franchise caters to only the esoteric few, the franchise can't make enough to keep them entertained. At a certain point, you need to start compromising and having an open mind so that you can still be entertained and letting the producers recoup enough to reinvest into more of that franchise.

Star Trek isn't as nearly limitless as many of you seem firmly believed. Ultimately, it will always be about a crew manning a ship, exploring space, and solving problems. How many times can this story be told before it grows tiring and stale? Some would argue that Enterprise was the nail in that coffin.
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Old December 24th, 2009, 11:52 PM #62
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Dragonwolf Ranger wrote: View Post

Did ever you guys ever wish they could've made a movie with the Enterprise, Defiant, and Voyager crews all together?
... No.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 12:41 AM #63
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No Wes, it'd be awesome.

They could all team up to fight the unplausable and never-before-mentioned son of Khan and the Borg Queen.

Oh no, wait, that sounds like TOTAL UTTER SHIT.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 12:47 AM #64
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Wes Janson wrote: View Post

... No.
But I do wish they'd give us a damn DS9 Movie. Return of the Emissary. More Defiant kicking ass and... well the other ships will have blown up so there'd be no names to take.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 01:53 AM #65
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ZeroXMarquis wrote: View Post

And for what it's worth, it didn't recruit new Star Trek fans.
False.

I'm sorry, but the franchise doesn't answer to your personal demands as to what it needs to be in order to be called "Star Trek." And even if the only way to be a "true" Star Trek fan was to be interested in the pre-2009 shows, then you would still be wrong because there are a multitude of people who watched the new movie and immediately started watching TOS, and moved on to the rest of the franchise.

I'm really amazed at this mindset that, just because someone doesn't enjoy Trek for the exact same reasons that you do, that somehow makes them less of a fan than you. To be honest, it just makes you look more guilty of immaturity than everyone you're looking down upon that enjoyed the new movie.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 06:59 AM #66
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ZeroXMarquis wrote: View Post


And for what it's worth, it didn't recruit new Star Trek fans. .
I'm sorry, but you are wrong.. at least from my point of view. I had LOTS of friends who would mock Trek, thought it was for nerds and geeks only until they saw the new film and thought wow...

I gave 2 of my friends a lend of my DS9 collection (every ep) and they started to come round to the idea Trek was an amazing franchise. So yea, at least where I am from Trek got alot of new fans with the movie.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 07:27 AM #67
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When I went to see it, the cinema was packed. I think it's safe to say many people enjoyed it, and no doubt a lot of them got watching other installments.

The Trek fandom has always been big. What the 09 movie did was nothing short of make it bigger.

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Old December 25th, 2009, 07:39 AM #68
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Wes Janson wrote: View Post

I know you're probably tired of being corrected at this point, but I feel compelled to point out that there's no such character as "Yohman". You're probably thinking of Yeoman Rand. A yeoman is a class of crew -- like ensign or commander. On the Enterprise Yeowman [Janice] Rand was kind of like Kirk's personal secretary or clerical administrator.

So yeah, just wanted to throw out that FYI.
I would not say it is a class, more it's a rate, like in the navy. It's a job.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 02:03 PM #69
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Did they ever name a ship the USS Roddenberry in any of the series or movies?
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Old December 25th, 2009, 02:31 PM #70
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not that i can remember and i grew up on trek
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Old December 25th, 2009, 03:12 PM #71
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Star Trek is fucking class
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Old December 25th, 2009, 08:15 PM #72
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I wanna throw in with Ryland about Voyager. There were some very good episodes of Voyager. But overall the series was crap. Not as much crap as Enterprise, because Enterprise was just Voyager rehashed, and therefore even less creative the second time around. This includes the bipolar/chronic-PMS-suffering Captain. (He's all Mr. Love and Peace until he's ready to throw some innocent guy who MIGHT know something about the Xindi out a goddam airlock.) And, ironically, the best episodes of either series usually had something to do with the ship's physician. So go figure.

Also going to agree about DS9. It's truly underrated Trek. It was kind of out there. And sometimes it stumbled. A lot of the time, though, it was very engaging and perhaps closer in spirit to TOS than TNG was. It was a very human series. Which is ironic for obvious reasons to anyone who watched it.

As to that rather amusing comic featuring Captain Archer... Funny, but untrue. Yes, we know Archer existed in the new timeline. But consider one thing about Archer: It was always made to seem that his series was directly impacted by the events of the movie First Contact. Since the new timeline changed things for the Next Gen crew, there's a chance that Enterprise may never have happened at all. At least not in the crappy way we saw it happen. But, yeah, I'm sure there were changes.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 05:40 PM #73
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Sir Patrick Stewart

Patrick Stewart is knighted. About damned time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertain...re/8434903.stm
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Old December 30th, 2009, 06:52 PM #74
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ZeoMew2Too wrote: View Post

Since the new timeline changed things for the Next Gen crew, there's a chance that Enterprise may never have happened at all. At least not in the crappy way we saw it happen. But, yeah, I'm sure there were changes.
At the very least, I'd like to think it erased "These Are The Voyages..." out of existence.

I don't know if the new Trek movie added much more to the hardcore fandom, but I will say that brought the franchise back to mainstream attention, somewhat lifted the geek stigma, and brought in more casual followers. Back in the day I practically had to drag my girlfriend and/or friends kicking and screaming to the TNG movies (even swank screenings on the Paramount lot); last summer they were the ones eager to take me to opening night. It brought a tear to my eye, as I thought it would never happen--the fact that for a moment, it was actually COOL to like Star Trek.

When it comes to Trekkies, I think I'm pretty hardcore--my early reputation on the Internet (and my username) was from posting spoilers of Voyager eps (and I was the one who spoiled Insurrection before it started filming). But I welcome the Trek reboot, and appreciate the fact that Abrams and Co. did it in a way that didn't just merely nod at the original incarnation, but preserved it and integrated it into the continuity. I'm looking forward to further Trek adventures in the Abrams timeline, as well as in the original timeline.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 08:41 PM #75
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As to that rather amusing comic featuring Captain Archer... Funny, but untrue. Yes, we know Archer existed in the new timeline. But consider one thing about Archer: It was always made to seem that his series was directly impacted by the events of the movie First Contact. Since the new timeline changed things for the Next Gen crew, there's a chance that Enterprise may never have happened at all. At least not in the crappy way we saw it happen. But, yeah, I'm sure there were changes.
The First Contact movie was a story about fixing what the Borg tried to change. Either way, Cochraine would still cause the First Contact event. I mean, the Mirror Universe didnt have an Enterprise-E & we can assume their version of FC was mostly the same.

Archer also had to deal with time travelers from the future.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 09:47 PM #76
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MJ Parker wrote: View Post

Did they ever name a ship the USS Roddenberry in any of the series or movies?
Not a ship but I think he's been on many of the plaques on the bridges of the ships as one of the shipyard supervisors.

ZeoMew2Too wrote: View Post

Patrick Stewart is knighted. About damned time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertain...re/8434903.stm
Finally, a knight who will actually be able to protect the Queen if called upon.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 10:01 PM #77
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CobraMorphBT20 wrote: View Post

The First Contact movie was a story about fixing what the Borg tried to change. Either way, Cochraine would still cause the First Contact event. I mean, the Mirror Universe didnt have an Enterprise-E & we can assume their version of FC was mostly the same.

Archer also had to deal with time travelers from the future.
"Time travel: ever since my first day in the job as a Starfleet Captain I swore I'm never let myself get caught in one of these god-forsaken paradoxes. The future is the past, the past is the future. It all gives me a headache."

The Enterprise episode "Regeneration" shows that Enterprise's (the series) timeline was causally post-First Contact (the movie). Of course, the additional headache is that it is implied that the Borg from Regeneration--which were from the Borg contingent in First Contact--are the ones that send a signal to the Delta Quadrant informing them of Earth's existence in the first place.

Anyway, with this, and the Temporal Cold War...the whole darn multiverse is a mess. Best not to dwell on it. It's all going to collapse in 70 trillion years, anyway. Unless you place a bunch of subspace generators all over the universe in order to alter the cosmological constant.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 10:04 PM #78
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mikejonas wrote: View Post

It's all going to collapse in 70 trillion years, anyway. Unless you place a bunch of subspace generators all over the universe in order to alter the cosmological constant.


I knew I was supposed to do something today.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 10:13 PM #79
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If you really want to get down into the nitty gritty, technically, it's impossible to travel into the past history of your particular universe. The second you take the trip back in time, you're transported to an alternate branch in the multiverse.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 11:08 PM #80
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ZeoMew2Too wrote: View Post

Yes, we know Archer existed in the new timeline. But consider one thing about Archer: It was always made to seem that his series was directly impacted by the events of the movie First Contact. Since the new timeline changed things for the Next Gen crew, there's a chance that Enterprise may never have happened at all. At least not in the crappy way we saw it happen. But, yeah, I'm sure there were changes.
Ripple effects and then a cyclical effect

Kelvin disaster ----> New trek ----->Slightly altered versions of TNG, DS9 and Voyager

Alternate TNG crew go back in time. Alternate crew help Cochrane.

Now TNG crew tried very hard not to interfere too much with the timeline in the movie(prime directive and all)

Nothing might change and "Enterprise" will still be unaffected.
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