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View Poll Results: Favorite Disney Princess
Snow White 5 6.10%
Snow White
5 6.10%
Cinderella 9 10.98%
Cinderella
9 10.98%
Aurora 6 7.32%
Aurora
6 7.32%
Ariel 22 26.83%
Ariel
22 26.83%
Belle 20 24.39%
Belle
20 24.39%
Jasmine 24 29.27%
Jasmine
24 29.27%
Pocahontas 4 4.88%
Pocahontas
4 4.88%
Mulan 21 25.61%
Mulan
21 25.61%
Tiana 11 13.41%
Tiana
11 13.41%
Rapunzel 14 17.07%
Rapunzel
14 17.07%
Merida 4 4.88%
Merida
4 4.88%
Anna 10 12.20%
Anna
10 12.20%
Elsa 17 20.73%
Elsa
17 20.73%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 30th, 2015, 11:32 PM #41
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Do you know the actual Pocahontas story? I feel like that alone should make anyone offended they made the movie, let alone still profit off her and continue to use her like they do.
I do. And while it's fictitious, the "Hunchback of Notre Dame" story is equally tragic, and they went ahead and did that, didn't they?

My qualms with your complaints are really irrelevant anyway, since I don't particularly care for neither "Pocahontas" nor "HOND" (Disney versions at least), so feel about it however you want.

Also, there are people who like the movies (I may not be one of them, but there are anyway), and they shouldn't be denied their enjoyment of it because someone has some political or ethical issue with it, and feels like whining. A lot of the Disney movies aren't 100% faithful to their source material, so singling out certain movies is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If you don't like it, don't acknowledge its existence.
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Old March 30th, 2015, 11:47 PM #42
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Do you know the actual Pocahontas story? I feel like that alone should make anyone offended they made the movie, let alone still profit off her and continue to use her like they do.
That's like saying anyone who watched and liked Titanic should be offended and ashamed they used such a tragedy to make money.
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Old March 30th, 2015, 11:57 PM #43
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I've seen plenty offended for that very reason. I don't agree with it but it happens. There's a limit on how soon is too soon, but eventually things become fair game to do your own take on real events/tragedies
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Old March 31st, 2015, 12:09 AM #44
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Myzou wrote: View Post

That's like saying anyone who watched and liked Titanic should be offended and ashamed they used such a tragedy to make money.
Kyle16 wrote: View Post

I've seen plenty offended for that very reason. I don't agree with it but it happens. There's a limit on how soon is too soon, but eventually things become fair game to do your own take on real events/tragedies
My point exactly. If you're offended by something, just don't watch it, simple as that. Don't go ruin someone else's enjoyment because it hurts your "sensibilities".
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Old March 31st, 2015, 06:38 AM #45
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Batfan19 wrote: View Post

I do. And while it's fictitious, the "Hunchback of Notre Dame" story is equally tragic, and they went ahead and did that, didn't they?
Hunchback is messed up for different reasons, but being a fictitious story rewritten for kids puts it in a different category than taking a brutal true rape/slavery story and making it a fantasy love story.

Also, there are people who like the movies (I may not be one of them, but there are anyway), and they shouldn't be denied their enjoyment of it because someone has some political or ethical issue with it, and feels like whining. A lot of the Disney movies aren't 100% faithful to their source material, so singling out certain movies is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If you don't like it, don't acknowledge its existence.
Not 100% faithful to fairy tales and fiction isn't really a problem, but making a love story out of a 12 year old child's rape and later enslavement doesn't seem wrong to you?

It's not about ignoring something I don't like, it's that it's very existence is offensive. It's not just disliking something, it's that if I ignore it the problem doesn't actually go away. They're still profiting off something that offends me as a native American and continues to mistreat and appropriate real culture then manipulate it into a brand. Ignoring that doesn't make it stop. Ignoring that only gives them permission to continue to steal and misuse culture.

Imagine a movie about a happy slave who enjoys being a slave and fights to protect their master then is made into a product to be sold to children. That's what Pocahontas is like for me.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 08:11 AM #46
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The Renaissance princesses are remarkable female characters, especially Belle. She has the most depth, character, and personality out of all the Princesses. She was in fact the first princess to get her happily ever after all on her own. She did not need the help of a fairy godmother or talking mice nor did she need true love's kiss or a bargain with an evil sea witch to get it. She did it all by herself.

Jasmine is really sassy and fun. I loved how she was trying to distract Jafar by pretending to flirt with him during the climax of Aladdin.

Ariel risked too much by making a deal with someone she knew was evil. However, I still really love her spirit. Jodi Benson really put her heart into creating the singing and speaking voice for the character.

Pocahontas and Mulan are definitely heroic. They fought for what was right and saved many lives. I did not connect with them as much as their predecessors but they are good role models.

I have also really enjoyed the 21st century princesses. Tiana, Rapunzel, and Merida are definitely not damsels in distress. I have not watched their movies countless times yet but there are more viewings for me in the future.

Walt Disney's princesses: Snow White, Cinderella, and Aurora are not very strong but they are likable. I enjoyed the latter two even more in their live-action films. They were given more depth.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 08:39 AM #47
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I do like that Tiana is an actual princess. Like there's a legit royalty and country of origin defining the kingdom. Most of the Princesses are just general royalty in some medieval European country of no name or specific time. I like the sense of world building it brings to the character to actually give them a defined kingdom, same with Jasmine or Elsa.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 10:23 AM #48
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I cannot wait to see Emma Watson play Belle in the 2017 remake. I've loved her for years and she is perfect for the role.

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Old March 31st, 2015, 03:49 PM #49
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Has anyone been to that rejected disney princess site?

http://www.rejectedprincesses.com
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Old March 31st, 2015, 09:02 PM #50
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Hunchback is messed up for different reasons, but being a fictitious story rewritten for kids puts it in a different category than taking a brutal true rape/slavery story and making it a fantasy love story.



Not 100% faithful to fairy tales and fiction isn't really a problem, but making a love story out of a 12 year old child's rape and later enslavement doesn't seem wrong to you?

It's not about ignoring something I don't like, it's that it's very existence is offensive. It's not just disliking something, it's that if I ignore it the problem doesn't actually go away. They're still profiting off something that offends me as a native American and continues to mistreat and appropriate real culture then manipulate it into a brand. Ignoring that doesn't make it stop. Ignoring that only gives them permission to continue to steal and misuse culture.

Imagine a movie about a happy slave who enjoys being a slave and fights to protect their master then is made into a product to be sold to children. That's what Pocahontas is like for me.
Well, your reveal of your NA heritage makes me feel slightly differently about my stance.

Honestly, who really remembers Disney's "Pocahontas" anyway?

ranger_scout wrote: View Post

I cannot wait to see Emma Watson play Belle in the 2017 remake. I've loved her fo years and she is perfect for the role.
I'm quite excited myself.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 09:40 PM #51
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Batfan19 wrote: View Post

Honestly, who really remembers Disney's "Pocahontas" anyway?
Really now? I'd say more people remember her than say, aurora.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 09:54 PM #52
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Kyle16 wrote: View Post

Really now? I'd say more people remember her than say, aurora.
That's a good point, . I have to remind myself that Aurora is the actual name of "Sleeping Beauty".
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Old March 31st, 2015, 09:57 PM #53
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Batfan19 wrote: View Post

Honestly, who really remembers Disney's "Pocahontas" anyway?
A lot. The point is they're still using her in this line. They're still pumping out merch with her face on it which is the ongoing problem.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 10:21 PM #54
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

A lot. The point is they're still using her in this line. They're still pumping out merch with her face on it which is the ongoing problem.
I don't know what to tell you man. I feel more sympathetic now that you told me about your personal stake in the matter, but still, there's a dark side to everything, if we really look for it. The question is, should that be all we focus on? "Ignorance is bliss", and I think this can describe a lot of people in regards to various things they like. What they don't know, can't hurt them. Your objection to the Disney version of the story is valid, but if it bothers you so, just don't acknowledge it. You'll drive yourself crazy if you feel that everyone has to share your view on something.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 10:40 PM #55
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Batfan19 wrote: View Post

I don't know what to tell you man. I feel more sympathetic now that you told me about your personal stake in the matter, but still, there's a dark side to everything, if we really look for it. The question is, should that be all we focus on? "Ignorance is bliss", and I think this can describe a lot of people in regards to various things they like. What they don't know, can't hurt them. Your objection to the Disney version of the story is valid, but if it bothers you so, just don't acknowledge it. You'll drive yourself crazy if you feel that everyone has to share your view on something.
Again though, ignoring it doesn't make the problem go away. It only gets worse if you ignore it, it gives them freedom and permission to continue doing what is wrong in the first place because you don't speak up against it at all.

I get the impression you don't really understand my problem here nor may not even want to from that "ignorance is bliss" mentality.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 10:57 PM #56
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Again though, ignoring it doesn't make the problem go away. It only gets worse if you ignore it, it gives them freedom and permission to continue doing what is wrong in the first place because you don't speak up against it at all.

I get the impression you don't really understand my problem here nor may not even want to from that "ignorance is bliss" mentality.
But at what point does that "speaking up" turn into whining?

You're right, in that I don't fully understand where you're coming from. I can't, as I don't share the same cultural background as you. I'll admit that. However, I'm just letting you know how I feel.

In actual reality, I think if "Pocahontas" was really that offensive to anyone that it may concern, in this day and age, it'd have been history a long time ago.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 11:05 PM #57
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Again though, ignoring it doesn't make the problem go away. It only gets worse if you ignore it, it gives them freedom and permission to continue doing what is wrong in the first place because you don't speak up against it at all.

I get the impression you don't really understand my problem here nor may not even want to from that "ignorance is bliss" mentality.
I know you're still entitled to your opinion, but just to point out, most of the Native American organizations love Disney's Pocahontas.

Yes, it commercializes and makes a horrible event that happened seem like butterflies and daisies, but it also brings the Native American people into the minds and brains of little kids.

I'm half Native American (and no, I don't know the tribes I technically belong to, my grandma took that knowledge to her grave because my dad married a German) but if I hadn't seen Pocahontas, I would've only known Native Americans as the group of people who were slaughtered on an island nearby, as that's all our schools taught us other the original meeting (which Pocahontas shows in a less violent light, and thus helps soften the blow while simultaneously making it seem even harder to learn about because you feel like you know those people). My dad didn't teach us about our heritage because our grandma made it clear she didn't want us in it because we were "tainted" by German blood essentially. They wasn't 100% Native, but about 90-95% from what my dad said.

Pocahontas helps teach kids who Native Americans were. Yes, it cuts off all the horrible things the settlers did and makes light of them, but it gives them focus.

That's why all the lawsuits you mentioned tend to get laughed out of court. Because other native organizations launch counter suits to get the original one thrown out. This has been going on for pretty much the past 20 years, since it was released.

Without Pocahontas, Disney has no Native American representation. Most organizations would rather have representation that's skewed to make Native Americans seem like a people who united the settlers and natives than to have representation showing the natives being exploited and killed like what really happened. There's history books for that. Children's stories are meant to make light of past events and make them happier, to help teach children who the people involved were, so that when they learn about all the grim stuff later on, it impacts them more.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 11:12 PM #58
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Myzou wrote: View Post

I know you're still entitled to your opinion, but just to point out, most of the Native American organizations love Disney's Pocahontas.

Yes, it commercializes and makes a horrible event that happened seem like butterflies and daisies, but it also brings the Native American people into the minds and brains of little kids.

I'm half Native American (and no, I don't know the tribes I technically belong to, my grandma took that knowledge to her grave because my dad married a German) but if I hadn't seen Pocahontas, I would've only known Native Americans as the group of people who were slaughtered on an island nearby, as that's all our schools taught us other the original meeting (which Pocahontas shows in a less violent light, and thus helps soften the blow while simultaneously making it seem even harder to learn about because you feel like you know those people). My dad didn't teach us about our heritage because our grandma made it clear she didn't want us in it because we were "tainted" by German blood essentially. They wasn't 100% Native, but about 90-95% from what my dad said.

Pocahontas helps teach kids who Native Americans were. Yes, it cuts off all the horrible things the settlers did and makes light of them, but it gives them focus.

That's why all the lawsuits you mentioned tend to get laughed out of court. Because other native organizations launch counter suits to get the original one thrown out. This has been going on for pretty much the past 20 years, since it was released.

Without Pocahontas, Disney has no Native American representation. Most organizations would rather have representation that's skewed to make Native Americans seem like a people who united the settlers and natives than to have representation showing the natives being exploited and killed like what really happened. There's history books for that. Children's stories are meant to make light of past events and make them happier, to help teach children who the people involved were, so that when they learn about all the grim stuff later on, it impacts them more.
This is my point described by someone who has more authority in the matter than I ever will. Thank You, Myzou.

And with that, I think I can leave the matter alone, and feel comforted in the knowledge that the disgruntlement of a FEW still doesn't speak for ALL. I think that last bit is something that everyone in today's society needs to start remembering.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 11:43 PM #59
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Batfan19 wrote: View Post

In actual reality, I think if "Pocahontas" was really that offensive to anyone that it may concern, in this day and age, it'd have been history a long time ago.
Remind me again what Washington's football team is currently called.

I'm half Native American (and no, I don't know the tribes I technically belong to, my grandma took that knowledge to her grave because my dad married a German) but if I hadn't seen Pocahontas, I would've only known Native Americans as the group of people who were slaughtered on an island nearby, as that's all our schools taught us other the original meeting (which Pocahontas shows in a less violent light, and thus helps soften the blow while simultaneously making it seem even harder to learn about because you feel like you know those people). My dad didn't teach us about our heritage because our grandma made it clear she didn't want us in it because we were "tainted" by German blood essentially. They wasn't 100% Native, but about 90-95% from what my dad said.
The government literally has a blood quotient listing of native americans. You can find out exactly how much native you are and where it comes from because they actually built a scale for it and have absurdly detailed records of bloodlines if you want to actually find out. It's surprisingly easy to find out these days.

Most organizations.
Who are these organizations you're referring to? Because growing up on a reservation, I can tell you most organizations I've seen address Pocahontas would rather have the truth be told about their history than hide behind a fantasy.

I'm trying to cut back on this talk because I get it's out of place here. But it's this or the semantics about what a princess is and why Pocahontas and Mulan shouldn't count just on naming alone.

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Old April 1st, 2015, 12:52 AM #60
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

The government literally has a blood quotient listing of native americans. You can find out exactly how much native you are and where it comes from because they actually built a scale for it and have absurdly detailed records of bloodlines if you want to actually find out. It's surprisingly easy to find out these days.
We actually can't figure it out. My sisters and I and even our aunt have tried. We only know our grandma's name, and her husband. There's pretty much no information past that available online and to get more info we'd have to go to North Carolina, where our grandparents lived. (Our aunt actually lives there, but apparently doesn't care enough to look into the public records and such)

Funny how you run into so many hurdles when trying to learn about your Native American heritage unlike most races/ethnicites. >_> I actually went through a phase where I wanted to learn all about where I come from, etc. and just got hit by wall after wall and eventually, I just lost interest.

However, the Disney Princess line isn't all princesses. It's mostly meant to be strong female role models for kids to look up to. They chose the name Disney Princess because of the stereotype of every little girl wanting to be a princess.
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