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Old September 18th, 2018, 03:35 PM #101
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hasbro_primo wrote: View Post


For me, what becomes offensive is anytime two men have a deep bond they're always snickered about being in love with each other.
Thank you. Dean and Castiel, J.D. and Turk, Bert & Ernie, these are friendship goals.
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Old September 18th, 2018, 04:03 PM #102
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I don't understand how anyone thinks that there are more, or more positive, portrayals of gay couples in the media than of male friendships. That's not any kind of personal attack; I see that come up a lot, and it genuinely confuses me
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Old September 18th, 2018, 08:12 PM #103
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hasbro_primo wrote: View Post

For me, what becomes offensive is anytime two men have a deep bond they're always snickered about being in love with each other.
THIS. ALL THIS!!

Its like guys cannot have (real/true) guy friends anymore.
That if it goes beyond sports, video games, weird hand shakes, and chest/fist bumping, it automatically means they are gay.
I once had a talk with some of my high schoolers about this.
One was talking about how it is weird if it was only two guys hanging out, watching a movie or something.
And I remember asking out loud "Wait!! Its not ok for guys to have friends anymore?"
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Old September 18th, 2018, 09:19 PM #104
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hasbro_primo wrote: View Post

For me, what becomes offensive is anytime two men have a deep bond they're always snickered about being in love with each other.
Shippers ruin everything.

But seriously, this is the idea that I think makes way more sense for Sesame Street to get behind. Showing a positive male relationship that isn't an excuse for a gay joke. It's evolved from the take on the Odd Couple it began as to not a gay relationship but a healthy male relationship. Something kids really need to see, two guys who can solve their differences with words and respect for each other. They're the antithesis to toxic masculinity and that should get pushed more.

Sesame Street makes sense through the eyes of a child. They've dealt with a lot of big concepts for kids, death, divorce, different kinds of families, it would make the most sense to have a new monster be introduced with gay parents. That's generally how kids today are going to learn about gay people, they will meet families or come from families like that anyway. Treating it as just another type of family the way they've done divorced/widowed/step families is the normalization it deserves. Making Bert and Ernie gay only reinforces a stereotype in the end, the idea "two guys can't be close friends its too gay" is kind of a terrible idea to reinforce isn't it?

Plus if any Sesame Street character deserves to be allowed to come out, it's Alan.

BobbyDrake2000 wrote: View Post

Thank you. Dean and Castiel, J.D. and Turk, Bert & Ernie, these are friendship goals.
Shawn and Cory... what's the recurring theme here in those duos? The humor is played up as "being called gay is funny", why support that?

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And I remember asking out loud "Wait!! Its not ok for guys to have friends anymore?"
It's only ok for two guys to hang out alone if they're social losers or have a weird third friend they both pick on, as all teen comedies tell us.


There's also a little voice in the back of my head that says "hey, when are Asexuals going to get their representation, why does everyone have to be straight or gay?"
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Old September 18th, 2018, 09:40 PM #105
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I think that these articles are slightly skewing what the writer originally said. The quotes provided by https://uproxx.com/tv/bert-ernie-gay-sesame-street/ paint the idea that, yes in the writer's mind the characters were in a relationship, but that stemmed from him trying to contextualize their relationship. He breathed life from his own experiences with his partner into the characters. You write what you know, and he knew two men living together as partners in a relationship. He doesn't come off as authoritative, I don't think he's saying they're gay. He's giving insight into how he wrote them. Ultimately any story is up for interpretation. It will never be stated that they're more than just two dudes living together so whatever you personally contextualize will be the right answer.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 01:37 AM #106
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DrGreenEvil wrote: View Post

THIS. ALL THIS!!

Its like guys cannot have (real/true) guy friends anymore.
That if it goes beyond sports, video games, weird hand shakes, and chest/fist bumping, it automatically means they are gay.
I once had a talk with some of my high schoolers about this.
One was talking about how it is weird if it was only two guys hanging out, watching a movie or something.
And I remember asking out loud "Wait!! Its not ok for guys to have friends anymore?"
That's not the fault of gay characters in the media or people wanting to see more of them, but society's view of men. Like how it's assumed the only reason for a man to have a female friend is if he wants to date her (or maybe she's his ex)

SuperselfieRed wrote: View Post

Ultimately any story is up for interpretation. It will never be stated that they're more than just two dudes living together so whatever you personally contextualize will be the right answer.
That would be more of the case had they not put out that "Bert and Ernie aren't GAY, we promise!" statement. I agree with everything else, though; it looks like some of his words have definitely been taken out of context
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Old September 19th, 2018, 11:56 AM #107
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screamqueen wrote: View Post

That's not the fault of gay characters in the media or people wanting to see more of them, but society's view of men. Like how it's assumed the only reason for a man to have a female friend is if he wants to date her (or maybe she's his ex)
That seems to be a two-pronged problem. One, the hypersexualized view of men that they exist solely to bang, and two, media believing romantic relationships are far more interesting to implement creatively.

What is consistently failed to be acknowledged are sisterly bonds, certain women you love with all your heart that you couldn't imagine dating.

That would be more of the case had they not put out that "Bert and Ernie aren't GAY, we promise!" statement. I agree with everything else, though; it looks like some of his words have definitely been taken out of context
I don't think that had to do with fearing anything as much as setting the record straight. Nobody needs another Jerry Falwell pointing out Sesame Street's gay agenda when Frank Oz did a wonderful job in that one tweet to show our limited boxes of sexuality reduce everything in our society.

Why Bert and Ernie's relationship HAS to be more than what we see is very telling of who we are inside.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 09:40 AM #108
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Caroll Spinney , the operator and performer for Big Bird and Oscar, is retiring.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...bird-retiring/
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Old October 17th, 2018, 10:49 AM #109
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Cameron Samurai wrote: View Post

Caroll Spinney , the operator and performer for Big Bird and Oscar, is retiring.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...bird-retiring/
I thank him for all of his wonderful years of bringing such iconic characters to life. He will be missed, but he has definitely earned a nice retirement.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 12:35 PM #110
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Cameron Samurai wrote: View Post

Caroll Spinney , the operator and performer for Big Bird and Oscar, is retiring.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...bird-retiring/
Wow, talk about my childhood.

But the times are a-changing. Maria, Luis, Gordon, Bob... so Spinney's time has come. Thank you for everything.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 03:57 PM #111
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Cameron Samurai wrote: View Post

Caroll Spinney , the operator and performer for Big Bird and Oscar, is retiring.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...bird-retiring/
Interesting story from the documentary Wont You Be My Neighbor. When he guest starred on Mr Rogers, they wanted to show him putting on the Big Bird costume, so he could appear in the regular Neighborhood. When he refused, not wanting to spoil the magic for the kids watching, Big Bird was relegated to the Neighborhood of Make Believe.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 05:06 PM #112
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Cameron Samurai wrote: View Post

Caroll Spinney , the operator and performer for Big Bird and Oscar, is retiring.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...bird-retiring/
Wow, landmark there. I mean he definitely deserves to step back but crazy thinking about him having done it from the very beginning till now. Generations of kids growing up with the same Big Bird and Oscar.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 07:49 PM #113
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Cameron Samurai wrote: View Post

Caroll Spinney , the operator and performer for Big Bird and Oscar, is retiring.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10...bird-retiring/
Wow. Truly the end of an era. Is Dave Goelz the only original Muppet crew member left now?

Emmy-nominated puppeteer Eric Jacobson (Sesame Street‘s Grover, Bert, and Guy Smiley; Disney Muppets‘ Fozzie Bear, Miss Piggy) will serve as the guiding hand for Oscar the Grouch..
Oh God, no, don't use the "Frank Oz voice" for Oscar. I've heard Jacobson's Guy Smiley and he just makes him sound like a generic Oz character. Oscar needs to sound like Oscar.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 07:55 PM #114
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MegaZeo wrote: View Post

Oh God, no, don't use the "Frank Oz voice" for Oscar. I've heard Jacobson's Guy Smiley and he just makes him sound like a generic Oz character. Oscar needs to sound like Oscar.
Eric is doing Oscar during season 48 (Already aired on HBO, currently airing on PBS) and trust me, he is doing an AMAZING job as Oscar. You can hardly tell it isn't Caroll!
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Old October 17th, 2018, 08:06 PM #115
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Musashi wrote: View Post

Eric is doing Oscar during season 48 (Already aired on HBO, currently airing on PBS) and trust me, he is doing an AMAZING job as Oscar. You can hardly tell it isn't Caroll!
Holy crap, I just looked up a brief clip on YouTube and you're right. He's possibly doing a better job as Oscar than he has as Oz's characters.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 08:36 PM #116
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I'm glad he's retiring before it killed him, as it looked like wearing the suit was literally going to kill him some day. It is shocking to see the difference in body language with Big Bird from just a few years ago to most recent stuff and see how hard Spinney was pushing to perform in that suit. That's such an amazingly impressive physical role to get away with and never get credit for how physically demanding it was for 50 years.
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Old October 18th, 2018, 04:42 AM #117
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Eric Jacobson, the operator for Grover and Bert, will take over

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/17/65814...=1539862790202
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