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Old July 1st, 2016, 10:16 AM #201
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Digifiend wrote: View Post

Teresa May now favourite to become the new Prime Minister.
That's fucking terrifying.
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Old July 1st, 2016, 10:36 AM #202
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Sadsmileyface wrote: View Post

That's fucking terrifying.
Okay, I know nothing about the woman, but now I'm curious. What's so bad about her?
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Old July 1st, 2016, 10:51 AM #203
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johnboy3434 wrote: View Post

Okay, I know nothing about the woman, but now I'm curious. What's so bad about her?
I'm wondering this as well. Although you often hear about her I know nothing about Teresa May. Certainly during her time as Home Secretary I've never heard anything bad about her or had any reason to dislike her.
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Old July 1st, 2016, 10:57 AM #204
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Could someone explain why Boris Johnson couldn't run against Gove? I don't really care for either candidate, but I'm just surprised to see him drop out, as I thought becoming Prime Minister was his dream. Plus, I thought Johnson had a large following which would help him in his quest to secure the spot.
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Old July 1st, 2016, 11:42 AM #205
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Pepper wrote: View Post

They won't. If the UK wants access to the single market they'll have to accept all four fredoms of movement, that point is not negotiable. You cannot leave the club and them expect to get a better deal than the actual members.

The UK is also in a weaker position during the negotiations, the UK is an important market but ultimately the UK needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK and for a long time the UK threatened to leave the EU to get what they wanted (and got a lot of special conditions and goodies with that tactic) but now that they're leaving that threat has evaporated and can no longer be used.

The way I see it there are only two realistic options:

1) The UK remains a part of the single market but that means not being in control of their borders and free immigration of EU citizens. This option also comes with the UK having to pay money to the EU but as a non-member will no longer receive any support for their poorer regions.

2) The UK is in control of their borders and limits immigration and the free movement of people but that disqualifies them as a member of the free market and it would hurt their economy.

What many leave voters seem to imagine, being in control of their borders and still getting largely unrestricted access to the single market is simply not going to happen.
As has been said, it's complicated. Not all countries that trade with the EU take free movement in the same way.

Liechtenstein has a set quota on the number of EU nationals it will allow in.

Switzerland's nationals are free to work in the EU, but although most EU citizens can work in Switzerland, Bulgarians, Croatians and Romanians don't have automatic free movement.

Though obviously a country is not able to cherry pick; get all of the trade and refuse free movement, there are options and deals to be made.

Once Article 50 is enacted, we'll have 2 years to negotiate deals, and a lot can happen between now and then. For example, a lot of countries are looking to what happened and want to see in/out referendums for their countries. Obviously Brussels would want to punish the UK and make an example that leaving the EU is not met with reward, but if countries do start to leave, Britain will be in a stronger position as it's not just them asking for a better deal than they've been getting.
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Old July 1st, 2016, 02:23 PM #206
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HowlingSnail wrote: View Post

I'm wondering this as well. Although you often hear about her I know nothing about Teresa May. Certainly during her time as Home Secretary I've never heard anything bad about her or had any reason to dislike her.
There you go:

http://www.tfa.net/judge-theresa-may-on-her-record/
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Old July 2nd, 2016, 03:07 AM #207
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HowlingSnail wrote: View Post

I'm wondering this as well. Although you often hear about her I know nothing about Teresa May. Certainly during her time as Home Secretary I've never heard anything bad about her or had any reason to dislike her.
Teresa May has never hit any of her targets in any of the government roles she has held. She is against net neutrality, has tried three times to push through the right for police to access peoples internet and telephone records. She once stole a speech from Nigel Farage which was later found to be factually incorrect. Good side of May is that she has at least accepted that now Leave has won the political position has changed to the point where we can't back out.

Fox is the worst possible choice. The guy is a former Thatcherite who would love nothing more than to push austerity to the max by cutting everything he could. He is also anti-NHS.

Gove is not a good Prime Minister. If you want somebody to think through a policy and highlight why it is a good idea, he's perfect, but he can't influence people.

If you are looking for a good candidate then I would say either Crab or Leavesome. Both are competent, neither are committed to austerity beyond supporting the current policy.

Edit: having just seen the news this morning about Andrea's real feelings on Brexit, I think she's out

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Old July 4th, 2016, 08:43 AM #208
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Another twist. You'd think Nigel Farage would be happy that his party UKIP's primary policy, UK Independence, is now happening. So why has he decided to resign as party leader?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468
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Old July 4th, 2016, 09:25 AM #209
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Because as he said, he's now done his job and wants to move on with his life. Of course it's also worth pointing out that he resigned last year and he was made/persuaded to stay. I don't think we've seen the last of him just yet.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 09:56 AM #210
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Not surprised about Farage.

So many Brexits lately. We leave Europe, Cameron leaves the Tories, England and both Irelands leave EURO 2016 and Top Gear have lost Chris Evans!

It's good to see that Brexit is already creating jobs!
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Old July 4th, 2016, 10:06 AM #211
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Internutt wrote: View Post

Not surprised about Farage.

So many Brexits lately. We leave Europe, Cameron leaves the Tories, England and both Irelands leave EURO 2016 and Top Gear have lost Chris Evans!

It's good to see that Brexit is already creating jobs!
You forgot Hodgeson (Or however it's spelled) leaving too. I say we make them all swap jobs. Make Cameron manage England, get Farage to host Top Gear, make Hodgeson UKIP leader and make Chris Evans Prime Minister.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 10:08 AM #212
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All we need is Corbyn to go and that's a result
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Old July 4th, 2016, 10:10 AM #213
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darkshadowranger wrote: View Post

All we need is Corbyn to go and that's a result
Why? What's Corbyn done to deserve that. Because the way I see it the last year had been nothing but bashing Corbyn in the media for no particular reason. Did he eat everyone's children?
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Old July 4th, 2016, 10:20 AM #214
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Digifiend wrote: View Post

Another twist. You'd think Nigel Farage would be happy that his party UKIP's primary policy, UK Independence, is now happening. So why has he decided to resign as party leader?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468
Like he's said, job done. With the UK out of the EU, there's pretty much no reason for UKIP to exist as a party.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 10:27 AM #215
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HowlingSnail wrote: View Post

Why? What's Corbyn done to deserve that. Because the way I see it the last year had been nothing but bashing Corbyn in the media for no particular reason. Did he eat everyone's children?
Two things about Corbyn. Firstly he is the only Labour/Tory leader I have seen since John Major first called for a calmer and more polite exchange at PMQs to actually do so. The guy makes his arguments without the need to attack his opponent personally. Unfortunately because of that he is often seen coming off the worse in exchanges because Cameron's jibes get the news and not the valid points Corbyn made.

Second don't you just love that Labour MPs offered to adopt his policies on making the party more democratic to get him to go, in an attempt to undermine the democratic election of the party leader.

Spoony Spoonerson wrote: View Post

Like he's said, job done. With the UK out of the EU, there's pretty much no reason for UKIP to exist as a party.
Look at it this way, with their goal achieved they have little chance of getting more MPs, they're guaranteed to lose all their MEPs and if local council voters want racist bigots they'll vote for real scum like Britain First. UKIP has served its purpose and I have no doubt they'll soon announce they are merging with the Tories, the party they split from back in the days when they were known as something else.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 10:40 AM #216
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Digifiend wrote: View Post

Another twist. You'd think Nigel Farage would be happy that his party UKIP's primary policy, UK Independence, is now happening. So why has he decided to resign as party leader?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468
I must go, my planet needs me
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Old July 4th, 2016, 10:42 AM #217
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Spoony Spoonerson wrote: View Post

Like he's said, job done. With the UK out of the EU, there's pretty much no reason for UKIP to exist as a party.
Yes....and no.

The Referendum has come back as a 52% majority wanting out.

We are not (yet) out. Nobody has actually followed through with it yet, we're not out until someone has the balls to actually enact article 50.

I actually think there's still a good chance we won't leave. Why?

THese assumptions lie on us having a general election in the next six months, something I see as a likelihood.

2/3 of Labour members voted remain - if Corbyn comes into power he'd be a fool to enact a move that the majority of his party voted against. As labour seem to be a forerunner for the next government (let's be honest it's them or the Toris again) this could happen.

Liberal Democrats have actually stated at one point that if they came into power they'd not leave the EU. Whilst the Lib Dems are a reasonably small party with little to no chance of taking power this is a clear move to try and get a larger vote if an election were to be held due to the large number of remain voters.

Additionally given some of the bare faced lies and false promises in the leave campaign I'd call an outside shot of a repoll on the referendum as public sentiment has changed somewhat since the referendum. It could easily have shifted the other way.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 11:17 AM #218
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HowlingSnail wrote: View Post

Why? What's Corbyn done to deserve that. Because the way I see it the last year had been nothing but bashing Corbyn in the media for no particular reason. Did he eat everyone's children?
Yeah, Labour as well as the media at large have been attacking Corbyn non stop ever since he got elected. They've been shit slinging since day Zero and they won't stop.

To be fair though, it doesn't matter how great Corbyn is. In Scotland we have Kesia Dugdale, who is horrendous. Scottish labour have turned into a joke party with how crap they are compared to the SNP. Nicola is by far the best party leader in Scotland and possibly in the whole of the UK right now. There's pretty much no stopping the SNP now that Scottish Labour are even more unelectable than the Tories.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 11:19 AM #219
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Internutt wrote: View Post

Yeah, Labour as well as the media at large have been attacking Corbyn non stop ever since he got elected. They've been shit slinging since day Zero and they won't stop.

To be fair though, it doesn't matter how great Corbyn is. In Scotland we have Kesia Dugdale, who is horrendous. Scottish labour have turned into a joke party with how crap they are compared to the SNP. Nicola is by far the best party leader in Scotland and possibly in the whole of the UK right now. There's pretty much no stopping the SNP now that Scottish Labour are even more unelectable than the Tories.
It was even earlier than that. As soon as we knew Corbyn was running for leadership they were slagging him off.

I agree about the SNP though. I know last year my mum said she wished she could vote SNP because they seemed like the only ones with any sense.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 12:03 PM #220
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LastLine wrote: View Post

Yes....and no.

The Referendum has come back as a 52% majority wanting out.

We are not (yet) out. Nobody has actually followed through with it yet, we're not out until someone has the balls to actually enact article 50.

I actually think there's still a good chance we won't leave. Why?

THese assumptions lie on us having a general election in the next six months, something I see as a likelihood.

2/3 of Labour members voted remain - if Corbyn comes into power he'd be a fool to enact a move that the majority of his party voted against. As labour seem to be a forerunner for the next government (let's be honest it's them or the Toris again) this could happen.

Liberal Democrats have actually stated at one point that if they came into power they'd not leave the EU. Whilst the Lib Dems are a reasonably small party with little to no chance of taking power this is a clear move to try and get a larger vote if an election were to be held due to the large number of remain voters.

Additionally given some of the bare faced lies and false promises in the leave campaign I'd call an outside shot of a repoll on the referendum as public sentiment has changed somewhat since the referendum. It could easily have shifted the other way.
Granted, it's not a done deal until both Parliament and Lords have debated it and we invoke Article 50. That said, both Cameron and Corbyn have both said that they'll respect the will of the majority in seeing it through. Cameron resigned because he doesn't want to be the one to "push the button" on it, but hopefully the next PM will.

The Lib Dems are a complete outside shot these days. Whilst they may have sat as the "protest vote" 10 years ago, the co-majority with The Tories tarnished their name, and they lost a lot of votes at last year's elections because of it.

As far as the calls and Facebook petitions for a second referendum go, I'm against it. It would be hard to take any political decision seriously and could possibly lead to chaos if MPs felt justified in ignoring an elected government because they thought the outcome was weak enough to be questioned. So whichever way it goes and whoever says it, I don't think votes should be questioned or redone.
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