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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:37 AM #61
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Multiple Man wrote: View Post

EDIT- You edited, like, sixteen times. -_-

You act as if I said Mayu was awful. I like her. I don't like the logistical hoops we jumped through to give her the interchangeable Rider identity she now holds. It reads as something that was done in spite of a negative view of prominent female Riders, rather than just a good story. My statement was about hoping that the next female Rider doesn't need any of that, and doesn't have other people using her same suit/powers first. She's just the next Rider, no pretense or excuses required. That's not Mayu, no matter how awesome she is.
Sorry, but I'm really not seeing the basis for any of those complaints. Other people used Mage less than a handful of times. It would be like saying that the Shinkenger monster using the Diend powers somehow devalued Daiki as a hero, which is ridiculous. The fact that other people have her suit is utterly inconsequential in my view, and seems like a simple effect of the story rather than a sinister effort to make her "progressive" qualities irrelevant (somehow). That idea just rings completely hollow to me.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:46 AM #62
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johnboy3434 wrote: View Post

The fact that other people have her suit is utterly inconsequential in my view, and seems like a simple consequence of the story rather than a sinister effort to make her "progressive" qualities irrelevant.
Whoa, what?

It's not about making them irrelevant. It's about explaining to a bean-counter (moreso than to us viewers) why this character needs to exist. The first female Red is exactly the same as the male Red of her series. It's the same suit, with a skirt. Same weapons. Same mecha. KyoryuViolet was introduced to us as a guy. It's only later that he is replaced by the female version.

This doesn't discount the profound contribution and excellent story development these characters brought to the table. It does make it more acceptable to an executive with a negative mindset toward female heroes taking classically male personae that he might see as stealing focus/money from the proven working formula. If you believe those examples just happened like that by accident, I feel that's a little naive.

Regardless, I prefer this type of thing not happen so systematically.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:51 AM #63
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Multiple Man wrote: View Post

Whoa, what?

It's not about making them irrelevant. It's about explaining to a bean-counter (moreso than to us viewers) why this character needs to exist. The first female Red is exactly the same as the male Red of her series. It's the same suit, with a skirt. Same weapons. Same mecha. KyoryuViolet was introduced to us as a guy. It's only later that he is replaced by the female version.

This doesn't discount the profound contribution and excellent story development these characters brought to the table. It does make it more acceptable to an executive with a negative mindset toward female heroes taking classically male personas that he might see as stealing focus/money from the proven working formula. If you believe those examples just happened like that by accident, I feel that's a little naive.

Regardless, I prefer this type of thing not happen so systematically.
Except if the executive has such a negative view of female heroes, what would it matter if a female was completely unique or just a spin-off of a male hero? If you dislike women, it doesn't really matter how you gussy one up: it's still a woman.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:56 AM #64
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johnboy3434 wrote: View Post

Except if the executive has such a negative view of female heroes, what would it matter if a female was completely unique or just a spin-off of a male hero? If you dislike women, it doesn't really matter how you gussy one up: it's still a woman.
Do you believe that Go-OnSilver would have existed if she had not been paired up with Go-OnGold? Honestly. All of these characters have exact male counterparts, whereas there's only one Accel, Beast, etc. It's the norm, rather than the exception (in case the Births come to mind). This is the excuse given, that it's cheaper to make, and creates a connection to one of the major male heroes that is expected to draw lots of attention on his own. You're not likely to get a female version of MagiGreen, because he's not particularly popular. But a female ShinkenRed? That's an extra sum of money about to get sold that would otherwise not be expected if it weren't connected to Takeru.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 11:57 AM #65
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Female ShinkenRed, Mayu/Mage and KyoryuViolet aren't even part of the main toylines of their shows though. ShinkenRed eventually got an action figure, and the others might get too if they're popular among fans, but they weren't created to help the show's main toyline, targeting mostly children, but just because the staff wanted to do it.

That's why they needed to reuse material. They weren't backed by the toyline support and only could appear after the toy promotion had been done - that's why Mayu leaves for a long time before returning in the 40s, and even after that doesn't see much action, why KyoryuViolet had to debut as a man and why Kaoru could only appear after Shinkenger had already promoted all of its toyline. It's not even "females can only sell if associated with males", it's the staff attempting to add females in places where the executives handling the main toyline only want males.

Last edited by SmashZ; September 19th, 2013 at 12:32 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 12:08 PM #66
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This is true. It's less expensive to introduce these female heroes by basically just making them the same as existing male ones with suits already made. Most of the merch comes later, sadly. I see the male Violet along with the Spirit Rangers though.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 02:31 PM #67
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So, got back to watching Kuuga (only 5 more eps left, yayz!) and something occurred to me about its storytelling and its characterization. Something that I think makes not only unique and (IMO) very good, but might also explain why others might shy away from it:

The tone and the characters are probably the most realistic and most grounded in reality out of, not just as a Rider show, but any TV show that I've ever seen.

The characters do NOT act like characters in a fictional work; they act like real people, they emote like real people, and

Because here's the thing with fictional works of any medium; there's always a level of exaggeration present in the characters. Sometimes its in a small part of their personality, other times the character itself is larger than life. And while its all fun and good to watch these characters do what they do, there's still that small part of you that thinks "No one would act like that" or "There's no WAY anyone would REALLY act like that". In Kuuga, the way how the characters are personified, the way they react to events in the story...yeah, I can imagine someone actually act the way they act. I have no difficulty in imagining any of these characters as people that I might know, or as someone off the street.

Because let's face it, you guys know that you will NEVER meet someone who is EXACTLY like Tendou, the Taros, Otoya, Tsukasa, or Gentarou, ALL the time.

Also, fictional works tend to make conflicts in the story more melodramatic then they would in real life. Mostly its done (at least I feel) to really emphasize the emotion of the moment in the story. What's done in Kuuga, on the other hand, is that not only are things played more straight, but it's also played a lot more subdued. Which, to me, is a better reflection of the conflicts and events in real life.

Now where the breakdown is with some people when it comes to Kuuga, the people that call Kuuga "boring" and "too slow", I feel it's because they're more used to the exaggeration and larger-than-life stories. In my short time being out and about the Rider fandom, that those that decry Kuuga tend to be either the viewers whose first outing was among the more recent Rider shows, or whose favorites tend to be in the post-Kabuto era. As such, especially the former, their views tend to be colored by these particular shows. So while you may be used to the more fast-paced outings, Kuuga in comparison seems like its' dragging its feet through quicksand.

(yes, I realize this viewing is a bit biased, and yes I know this doesn't apply to EVERYONE who likes the shows from that era. Regardless, that's just my observations of the matter)

All in all, Kuuga's charm comes from the realism portrayed in its setting, atmosphere, and characters. And it's definitely something to be commended for.

As such, I'm disappointed that this kind of storytelling might never be seen in Rider again. And no, despite the creative intent behind Gaim, I don't think it will reach quite the same level as Kuuga did.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 03:19 PM #68
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tasti man LH wrote: View Post

Now where the breakdown is with some people when it comes to Kuuga, the people that call Kuuga "boring" and "too slow", I feel it's because they're more used to the exaggeration and larger-than-life stories.
Well, yeah. Fantasy has always been better than reality. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have created it in the first place. We only live in reality because we have to.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 03:23 PM #69
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Which actually brings me to one particular question:

Does everything in fiction HAVE to be larger-than-life and exaggerated up the hill? Just to keep audiences entertained?

It's not a question on if it makes a story "good", just that if it should/shouldn't be done.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 03:29 PM #70
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tasti man LH wrote: View Post

Which actually brings me to one particular question:

Does everything in fiction HAVE to be larger-than-life and exaggerated up the hill? Just to keep audiences entertained?
My personal opinion, seriously? Yes. Books/Movies/Comics/Games need to be significantly different from reality, because reality exists for all of us and we get to experience it free of charge. If we're going to fork over money, we should get something that we could never see normally.

And I don't see this as an impediment to characterization or audience involvement, because I argue that the exaggeration makes it easier for us to relate to a character, not harder. Humans, for all our blatant stupidity, are subtle creatures. A realistic human is hard to relate to because a realistic human can be thinking of a million different things when performing a single action. Do you agree with his mindset? Is this something you would do for the same reasons he would? No way to know. The exaggeration helps focus on the character traits that are relevant to the situation we see the character in. It breaks up the imposing monolith of the human psyche into bite-size chunks, which are easier for the audience to digest.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 06:09 PM #71
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I would say no, it is completely possible to make fictional stories that are realistic and down-to-earth in all aspects. See, humans don't create fantasy to get away from real life. We create it to get away from our own realities. Real life encompasses billions of stories that dip into every conceivable genre. People will accept stories that are like real life, as long as it isn't at all like their life. The new bride reads crime stories and the mafia don reads romances.

That said, I believe that some of the best stories are those that stud their realism with bits of fantasy. Like Kuuga, which literally does this with the stones that give Kuuga and the Grongi their powers in an otherwise mundane world. The Wire is a very grounded series that manages to be compelling despite never really rising above what one might see in a 'true crime' documentary series. Some would argue that it does stretch its credibility at times. But hey, so does reality at times.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 12:22 AM #72
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Thermite Kitten wrote: View Post

I would say no, it is completely possible to make fictional stories that are realistic and down-to-earth in all aspects. See, humans don't create fantasy to get away from real life. We create it to get away from our own realities. Real life encompasses billions of stories that dip into every conceivable genre. People will accept stories that are like real life, as long as it isn't at all like their life.
Completely agreed.

Here's a secret: Lightspeed Rescue is my favorite season of Power Rangers. A lot of that has to do with the fact that the Rangers act like real people the majority of the time. Carter's square but not a wet blanket, Chad's shy and quiet but not a church mouse, Joel jokes around but he's not a court jester, Kelsey's spacy but not mentally challenged, Dana's... she's so normal I don't even know how to sum her up, and Ryan was actually lied to his whole life and it only took a single action on his father's part to make him realize that fact. They don't wallow for the sake of the moral, they don't believe for the sake of believing, they actually put their brains and hearts on the forefront their entire stint as heroes, and it works out for them.

It's not to say that I don't enjoy exaggerated characterizations, those can be just as fun. But there's something... powerful about presenting your audience with a person that you could legitimately envision yourself being or knowing.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 12:56 AM #73
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Just watched an episode of kamen rider black
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 12:57 AM #74
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Dragonjones wrote: View Post

Just watched an episode of kamen rider black
And what did you think of it?
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 07:05 AM #75
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Cyclone RX wrote: View Post

And what did you think of it?
Judging from his posts he only came for media and we'll never hear from him again.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 03:01 PM #76
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Faiz 6-10:

The two sets of main characters are finally interacting with each other. As they're all searching for their purposes in their parallel journeys, a series of coincidences has brought them together. It's an interesting storytelling device: the groups are more separated than Ryuki and Knight, but closer than Kiva and past IXA (in terms of direct interactions). Each group has been kept in the dark about the other's roles and activities, creating a sense of impersonalness when they're masked.

Yuji, Yuka, and Naoya are all handling their situations very differently. Yuji clings to his past as a human, protecting everyone he considers a friend. In contrast, Naoya has thrown out his past as a guitarist, instead looking towards his future in the Smart Brain company. Both fight other Orphenochs, but for very different reasons. Yuka is stuck between the two extremes, concerning herself with the present and dealing wirh the situation at hand. She's just doing whatever she thinks is necessary to survive, whether it's sticking with the others or killing humans to avoid being labeled as weak.

While Naoya was willing to throw away his dreams after his hand injury, Takumi and Mari are more resilient. Neither gave up after Mari was told she curls hair too slowly or Takumi was forced to give up his Faiz belt - instead, they worked even harder to reclaim their goals. And Takumi has finally taken a definite position on Faiz - lacking it made him realize just how much he wanted it.

Another series about evolution? While there are many mechanisms for that, including natural selection and genetic drift, Smart Brain is using artificial selection in all sorts of unethical ways. From what can be described as genetic engineering, to treating humans as lab rats, to intentionally eliminating the unfit, they're not letting evolution run its natural course and instead are shaping the future while the main characters are thinking on much smaller time scales.

It seems Smart Brain developed the Rider Gear as an enforcement mechanism in their grand schemes, and Mari's dad rebelled and was subsequently dealt with, then they switched tactics to retrieve the Faiz belt. And with a new Rider (presumably Kaixa because of the chi), it's a wonder just what part of the plan he's implementing.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 05:25 AM #77
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OOO 1-4: There are probably a ton of "hand" jokes one can state at this point but I think I'll spare you...besides I can't think of what they are anyway.

So what to say about OOO from the get-go...simply put it actually has my attention, which I'm shocked at. While I love series like Kuuga or W, OOO is probably the first KR I've been wanting to see more of and actually can't wait to see continue. On the surface it has a lot going on: ancient homoculi based on coins that want to "complete themselves", a tricky homoculi that is essentially reduced to a disembodied hand, the main Rider actually created literally to be a tool for one member of the enemy even with his morality, a mysterious organization run by a guy obsessed with cakes and birthdays, coin machines that distribute weapons and the season's bike, a live action Shinobu Miyake (well without Shinobu's temper but "cute girl with super strength" does give me the Urusei Yatsura feel), and all those vibrant colors and fun combinations...and this is just four episodes in!

The theme I get from these initial episodes is a sense of "mutuality", that characters can't get anything done with one unless another helps them out along the way. This probably is best seen with the scenario of Eiji working alongside Ankh, but likewise receiving weapons and assistance from the Kougami Foundation on his mission. Ankh needs the Core Medals in order to become whole again, yet the other Greeed are in his way, some who probably want to be whole themselves and may need Ankh's help, others who are willing to let him out in just running around as "their little friend Handy". Ankh needs Eiji in order to help him get Core Medals (and probably other medals to feed off of), but at the same time Eiji needs Ankh in order to become OOO, even though he rather do it to keep the Greeed and their creations in line so they don't cause too much chaos. At the same time, the Kougami Foundation seems to need both the Greeed and Eiji, with the leader seeing the Greeed's return as "not so bad" yet giving access to his arsenal to Eiji to help him out (though I'm a bit confused so far about where Goto stands in all this) Further, Ankh needs the body of Hina's dying brother in order to go about normally in the human world (because floating hands who eat like he does are not normal) while Hina seems to need her brother even if he may or may not be alive for much longer if Ankh lets him go. (I really like that one scene in the opening where Hina "hugs" Ankh yet behind the "curtain" used to symbolize the Greeed in general) Likewise, the Greeed all need human greed, want and desire to create the fuel for their food, parasiting off them in order to create the Yummy for their (and the Kougami Foundation's) Cell Medals. (the creation of the Cell Medals is neat and reminds me a lot of the Money Dopant arc real early on in W) Yet said Cell Medals are also needed for the usage of all the weapons and even the bike that Eiji uses, thus sort of giving an idea that Yummys are a bit of a "bank investment that creates interest" and that whatever Medals collected must be saved carefully and used only as needed so you still have them if needed, thus perhaps forcing Eiji to be careful of when and what to spend his Medals on. (yeah the Yummy ultimately create a ton but I like the idea of the monsters being a bit like an RPG where you collect gold and you have to save the Gold for what you need instead of just spending it and not having it when you need it)

The Core Medals themselves I sort of see as "special novelty coins" even with the importance to OOO and the Greeed and very useful with the various combinations OOO can become. Further with the Greeed all needing Core Medals to "complete" themselves, it forces alliances and a potential change when needed, as seen with Ankh and Kazami in the second two-parter. I sort of can't wait to see what happens whenever Eiji finally gets a "straight flush" (appears it will probably happen with the Yellow ones first since he may have nearly all of them) but that will probably come eventually. All in all this has been a great set of openers and I hope it keeps up in this quality.

BTW: someone once said that there is a bit of a "Kuuga" feel to the season and I do sort of see why, with ancient beings "revived" and the hero being the only one who can fight them...then again there is more concreteness with the Greeed compared to Kuuga where anyone can "evolve" in combat and rise up.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 05:00 AM #78
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Erina Mano (Kamen Rider Nadeshiko) to appear in live-action Patlabor project.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 12:19 PM #79
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Questions about Decade

I've been watching Kamen Rider Decade lately and I've been having a few questions that people don't seem to question about it.

1:In the first episode Wataru was said stuff like "Where are your buckle and cards?", "In the past you lost them all." when Tsukasa cards sealed up, and "So, do you remember anything?", did we miss something, did Tsukasa run into Wataru, fought him, and lost his memories, belt, and cards in the process. Also, did he fight the other heisei riders as well? Maybe that could explain why Wataru was comrades with them despite none of them meeting each other. Oh and before any of you comment, the Ryuki Hyper Battle Video was a dream and Climax Deka was a AU Movie, I think.

2:Who or what made the cards Decade and Diend use? Did Dai-Shocker make them since they were the ones that made the Decadriver and Diendriver, if so how? I guess they made cards with Decade and Diend symbols on them from scratch, but how did they make cards of the other main, Secondary, extra, and even movie riders?

3:How can the Hikari Studio travel from A.R. World to A.R. World. Seriously that comes out of no where with no explanation, what is it a TARDIS.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 01:01 PM #80
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1:In the first episode Wataru was said stuff like "Where are your buckle and cards?", "In the past you lost them all." when Tsukasa cards sealed up, and "So, do you remember anything?", did we miss something, did Tsukasa run into Wataru, fought him, and lost his memories, belt, and cards in the process. Also, did he fight the other heisei riders as well?
Well, it's unknown. All Riders vs Dai-Shocker says that Tsukasa left to conquer the worlds with the DecadeDriver, but disappeared and lost his memories for some reason, until Tsukasa and the DecadeDriver were found by Natsumi. It seems likely that he might have fought against them, lost and ended up losing his memories in the battle, but it's never confirmed anywhere.

2:Who or what made the cards Decade and Diend use? Did Dai-Shocker make them since they were the ones that made the Decadriver and Diendriver, if so how? I guess they made cards with Decade and Diend symbols on them from scratch, but how did they make cards of the other main, Secondary, extra, and even movie riders?
Although it's never directly explained in the show, the official description of the suits in the official site make it clear. The Rider cards were created alongside the Decade and Diend Driver themselves. They were designed with the whole idea of mimicking other powers in mind.

There's 2d data about the Riders in the cards, and Decade's belt has the Trickster Stone (the red stone in the center) and the power of the 6 elements (Those 6 small stones making an horizontal line in the Decade Driver- earth, water, fire, wind, light, darkness), which are used to transform data into real 3d dimensional matter or energy. Diend also has the six elements(in his belt) and the Trickster Stone (which is inside the actual Diend Driver, rather than in his belt).

:How can the Hikari Studio travel from A.R. World to A.R. World. Seriously that comes out of no where with no explanation, what is it a TARDIS.
Eijiro was a Dai-Shocker member, even if only thanks to a Gaia Memory and not his own will, and Dai-Shocker had some kind of technology to travel between the worlds.
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