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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:24 PM #241
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OhStarryNight wrote: View Post

For nearly 20 years, PR got by without this level of pandering.
Which may have had all to do with other shows being able to do it for them.

Saban Entertainment produced Fox Kids itself, Disney obviously owned all three networks they aired it on. But Saban Brands relied exclusively on Power Rangers, so being forced into pandering to attract the most immature of audiences may have been a necessity.


Lordoftherangers wrote: View Post

Avatar: The Last Airbender (my favorite cartoon of all time btw) is a perfect example of a show that wad massively popular with kids and just as massively popular with adults. It had humor and it was serious at the same time.
But The Legend of Korra tried that identical model and eventually flopped with its target audience.

The same trick doesn't always work forever, sometimes you have to adapt with the times.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:25 PM #242
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^ Technically, Korra flopped because of executive meddling. And because the first two seasons...kinda sucked. By the time the writing improved come Season 3, it was too late.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:29 PM #243
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Jus1995 wrote: View Post

^ Technically, Korra flopped because of executive meddling.
Yeah, between moving it from Saturday mornings, where it got fantastic ratings, to a Friday night death slot after an 18 month hiatus, to throwing up the third season randomly in the middle of the summer with little to no promotion, then suddenly pulling it from the air to be a web exclusive, Nick FUBAR'd Korra hard.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:32 PM #244
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OhStarryNight wrote: View Post

Yeah, between moving it from Saturday mornings, where it got fantastic ratings, to a Friday night death slot after an 18 month hiatus, to throwing up the third season randomly in the middle of the summer with little to no promotion, then suddenly pulling it from the air to be a web exclusive, Nick FUBAR'd Korra hard.
Not gonna disagree with you there. (also there was the show's inconsistent quality, multiple cases of fan backlash and the nontroversial ending)
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:35 PM #245
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Jus1995 wrote: View Post

Not gonna disagree with you there. (also there was the show's inconsistent quality, multiple cases of fan backlash and the nontroversial ending)
Korra was so wildly inconsistent. The creators were so badly trying to shape the show to whatever they thought the fans wanted that each season felt like a completely different show. Add to that the craptastic fourth season, it actually made me like ATLA less by association.

But truly, we are off topic...
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:37 PM #246
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OhStarryNight wrote: View Post

Korra was so wildly inconsistent. The creators were so badly trying to shape the show to whatever they thought the fans wanted that each season felt like a completely different show. Add to that the craptastic second season, it actually made me like ATLA less by association.

But truly, we are off topic...
Fixed that for you.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:37 PM #247
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DarthKamen wrote: View Post

Fixed that for you.
I preferred the second season. Fight me.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:38 PM #248
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OhStarryNight wrote: View Post

Korra was so wildly inconsistent. The creators were so badly trying to shape the show to whatever they thought the fans wanted that each season felt like a completely different show. Add to that the craptastic fourth season, it actually made me like ATLA less by association.

But truly, we are off topic...
Yep. Back on topic, the only way PR could ever get back to the In Space-RPM Glory Days is if A) Nick relaxes its' timeslots, B) The Writing Staff add new talent, or C) Beast Morphers ends up a flop and the franchise borders on getting cancelled.

Or D) All of the above.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:41 PM #249
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OhStarryNight wrote: View Post

I preferred the second season. Fight me.
*takes out Lightsaber*

Oh I will.

But any way....um....

Yay Hasbro!
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Old September 11th, 2018, 09:25 PM #250
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Jus1995 wrote: View Post

^ Technically, Korra flopped because of executive meddling. And because the first two seasons...kinda sucked. By the time the writing improved come Season 3, it was too late.
I recently rewatched Book One and honestly...not that bad. The only thing bringing it down is the pro bending and the romance subplots. But everything else with Amon, Tarlok and the Equalist movement is pretty damn solid. Book 2 sucked major ass I admit. Worst out of the whole Avatar franchise. Book 3 was god-tier and Book 4 was kinda dull imo.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 09:46 PM #251
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AdamOfGotham wrote: View Post

Hasbro needs to hire Greg Aronowitz. Like now.
I think he's good doing his own thing right now. Honestly, that's a big difference between Disney era and Saban stuff. Disney hired people who wanted to use PR to move up with their careers, Saban uses people who makes their careers about PR. So it could be argued some of the creative in Disney's era did more things to get noticed as creative, whereas Saban's stuff has all been about keeping PR going at all costs. It will be interesting to see what Hasbro does in regards to that.

AtoMan wrote: View Post

And that's the problem, because it was never aimed at so low age group before Saban Brands; I believe the intended target age was 6-12 before. Still childish, but wouldn't make your brain rot.
One thing that often gets overlooked in this line of discussion is that Sentai started aiming lower and lower, so PR kind of just started going lower by default.

Disney era had pretty dark moments, with SPD for example. Why can't the show evenreach that level now?
What's the criteria then? What's "dark enough" or what moments from SPD are we talking about exactly? I'd argue there are similar dark moments now that get overlooked due to either not focusing on the dark or other things getting in the way. I mean, we've had 2 genocides, 3 if you count Keeper killing the dinosaurs, PTSD moments, world actually wiped out, dead parents, and one abusive relationship. It's not the darkness you're looking for, it's the quality of delivery.

Harpsikord wrote: View Post

While you have kids out here enjoying the semi-sophisticated storytelling of Voltron or Adventure Time or Steven Universe or [insert cartoon here], Haim Saban still thinks that children can't even understand the concept of basic maths without proper hand-holding.
Well, kids can't understand the concept of basic maths, most adults don't either. Those shows aren't teaching anyone math, man. They're teaching emotional growth. Which is actually less aimed at kids as it grows than you'd think. These shows that get thrown in the "Why can't PR be like this?" tend to forgo the kids at some point or never really treated them as the main audience in the first place. Kids are still drawn to them for generic aspects that appeal to everyone, but they aren't in it for Bubbline, the bigger drama stuff eventually outpaces that audience and often the kids fade out interest. These are shows that appeal to older audiences more than the young kids PR is heavily invested in, associated with, and targeted towards. They aren't really comparable approaches.

FET-Kun wrote: View Post

Never mind Voltron, a show that was free from much of the traditional bullshit that I just spoke about.
I question the validity of even saying Voltron was aimed at kids. It clearly wanted kids to be interested, not enough to sell them toys apparently, but the showrunners clearly had an older and wider audience in mind when making it and have clearly intended it to be the adult show without going full adult cartoon they wanted Avatar to grow up into but wasn't allowed to by the network.

These are cartoons that were never meant to be popular with young kids, but to appeal to that older fan. Hell, let's be honest, they were built to appeal to the fan in that lost demographic between too old for kiddie shows, but slightly burned out by the anime bubble and no longer wanting to put up with Adult Swim's nonsense. That audience that wished there was a western style anime, essentially.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 11:35 PM #252
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and one abusive relationship
I'm sorry, what?
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Old September 12th, 2018, 07:01 AM #253
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DarthKamen wrote: View Post

I'm sorry, what?
Victor and Monty.

They have a whole backstory that is never shown on screen. So much untapped potential.

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Old September 12th, 2018, 09:52 AM #254
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I question the validity of even saying Voltron was aimed at kids.
Same. The team working on Voltron, had a clear path that they wanted to take, and it's consistent start to present; it's a character and story driven show first, and action second. Not to say the show doesn't have some great action sequences, but there are strings of episodes that revolve around the team getting from point A, to point B, and navigating all of the drama and politics of their actions.

Not saying kids can't enjoy this current Voltron, (I'd love to know what the data shows about the audience) but I cannot imagine that it's overly engaging for the average 5-10 year old. Now, if you compare this Voltron to the not so long ago Nickelodeon version, it's nearly night and day, where it was clearly driven by similar standards that Power Rangers has placed on it. Keep the kid in their seat, sell them toys, and give them something to laugh at.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 10:50 AM #255
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I'm a little concerned that it might be Nickelodeon asking for the show to be dumbed down.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 10:55 AM #256
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Poweranimals wrote: View Post

I'm a little concerned that it might be Nickelodeon asking for the show to be dumbed down.
Considering how well regarded Avatar was that sounds doubtful

Everything points to Haim Saban wanting the show to be dumb. From multiple sources
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Old September 12th, 2018, 11:12 AM #257
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Poweranimals wrote: View Post

I'm a little concerned that it might be Nickelodeon asking for the show to be dumbed down.
Nickelodeon is the network that has strived off of its more ďmatureĒ shows, most of which had some pretty crude humor and hidden metaphors. I mean Spongebob is their bread and butter and there are so many double entendres and crude jokes there. Same goes for shows like iCarly, Drake and Josh when it was on, Victorious, etc. Then as others mentioned even TMNT, Airbender, and Korra have some degree on deep ness and maturity.

I donít think Nick has a thing to do with the dumbing down of the show. They donít dumb down their own stuff to the degree that PR has been dumbed down so I doubt they would care enough to mandate PR get dumbed down. Hopefully with Hasbro in Charge we see that change though.

As others have stated, this is clearly Haimís influence on the show. Weíve heard it from multiple source at this point so itís hard to even dispute the claims. We even heard it from the horses mouth (Chip) at PMC.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 06:47 PM #258
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DarthKamen wrote: View Post

I'm sorry, what?
Jake and Gia is a messed up relationship that shows she clearly knows and enjoys using Jake's crush on her for her own ends and Jake just takes it to be with his dream girl. It's delivery is lighthearted and meant to be comedy, but the element itself can be looked at as incredibly dark. That's the problem with "dark" it has no set standards or criteria and is almost entirely within the eye of the beholder.

FET-Kun wrote: View Post

Not saying kids can't enjoy this current Voltron, (I'd love to know what the data shows about the audience)
I think that's the downside to Netflix, absolutely no data is given. So beyond word of mouth, there really isn't a way to determine if something is doing good or not. Voltron's toy sales were considered a loss for the most part, which is pretty much the only metric you get that can be compared to it's peers and a great excuse for PR to never go to Netflix.

Poweranimals wrote: View Post

I'm a little concerned that it might be Nickelodeon asking for the show to be dumbed down.
I feel like it's a combination of Nick and Saban. Nick having a specific style, and Saban wanting to make his writers match it, but also meeting his requests at the same time. The end result is the production by committee style Ninja Style ended up suffering.

The only voice at Nick who'd possibly be a problem, as they supposedly had been the voice that got in the way for Avatar and thought TMNT needed to be shut down to make a Go! version, seems to have been recently removed from the network so it will be interesting to see what they do now or where things can go. Heck, the network has already committed to moving away from Schneider style shows supposedly,.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 05:31 AM #259
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Comedy and dumbing-down are related but are not the same thing. I think Haim just wants the show to have more comic elements. I'd be surprised if he was pushing for the show to be dumbed down.

For example, Saban Brands were talking about comedy since Samurai , it was just harder to pull off in Samurai/Megaforce because they were mainly cut and pastes of the Sentai. The dumbing down started midway through Dino Super Charge. It seems odd that Haim would suddenly decide to go for that in the middle of a season, which is why I think it's coming from somewhere else.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 07:38 AM #260
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big smile wrote: View Post

Comedy and dumbing-down are related but are not the same thing. I think Haim just wants the show to have more comic elements. I'd be surprised if he was pushing for the show to be dumbed down.
It's more that Haim's idea of comedy is extremely dumbed down archaic and dated approaches, and that's what he wanted to see the new writers do.

For example, Saban Brands were talking about comedy since Samurai , it was just harder to pull off in Samurai/Megaforce because they were mainly cut and pastes of the Sentai. The dumbing down started midway through Dino Super Charge. It seems odd that Haim would suddenly decide to go for that in the middle of a season, which is why I think it's coming from somewhere else.
Part of the meddling of Super Charge was the writing staff being replaced. From the sounds of things, Tzachor got free reign because he said and did the right things until he screwed the pooch with Megaforce and Haim started sticking his nose in the show itself, not just the marketing business built around it. Chip was given free reign with DC, but spent money and Saban found another fun tax break to utilize to make up for that. Then the movie happened and Haim Saban starts gettings hands on again, he's promoting, he's selling, he's making direct demands of the show, he's making plans to sell it to Hasbro, to get in bed with nick more than ever before, he's basically just getting in his own way.

DSC didn't drop to Ninja Steel humor, it was still a good season, it just wasn't as good as the first and sort of dropped the ball on story momentum, then gave us a bad ending. It's was a great episodic season and that's what Haim wanted to see, more episodic seasons with more Haim style humor.
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