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Old July 21st, 2018, 11:32 PM #421
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hasso_primo wrote: View Post

Now that would have made me watch Firefly.
The fact you didn't watch Firefly Primo shows that I can't take some of your opinions seriously. Some just means I just can't always rely on you for shame Primo for shame.
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Old July 21st, 2018, 11:35 PM #422
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I tried watching Firefly and was bored out of my mind. Did not get the hype at all
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Old July 21st, 2018, 11:37 PM #423
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How far did you make it? I was late to the party but I thought it totally lived up to it.

I watched it in the intended order btw so I don't know how that affects anything.
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Old July 21st, 2018, 11:38 PM #424
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PineapplePizza wrote: View Post

I tried watching Firefly and was bored out of my mind. Did not get the hype at all
How many episodes did you watch because the first two are pilots. You may ask like why are the first two pilots? Well because networked wanted a pilot and wanted the first episode aka the second one to be a pilot because their aired the pilot. Fox didn't know what to do with the show. So it really does hurt a bit and suffers from pilot syndrome. Once you get past the first few episode that is where it starts to show its charm.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 12:16 AM #425
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Peter wrote: View Post

Trick was racially problematic? It's a show about demonic evil. If all the antagonists were white (like most of them were, actually), wouldn't that be similarly problematic?
But Trick wasn't just black, he was a black stereotype, the cool daddy pimp/dealer complete with vocal tone and slang usage. Made even more obvious compared to the prim and proper family values salt-of-the-earth mayor of Sunnydale.

And secondly, how is black/promiscuous/evil/insane actually different from white/promiscuous/evil/insane?
The protagonist, who would still be white.

It's not about actual intention, it's just about the thoughts that go into people's heads. Just like why in real life Kendra was the only one of the three individual Slayers in the show's entire run that died and after having not done anything particularly noteworthy. It doesn't make the moves deliberate, but it makes you wonder if they could have been.


Which is why now there's this massive focus on presenting all skin colors and presenting them in positive lights, to offset the marginal and almost lampooned inclusion to this point, such as making the title character the black girl this time out.

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Old July 22nd, 2018, 05:06 AM #426
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I never knew that Trick was insensitive when I watched it, but all these years later, I can certainly understand why people could feel that he was. I just perceived him as a modern, slick politician. A marketing man.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 09:53 AM #427
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Alitain wrote: View Post

But right there, you give zero reason for it to be a prequel by just having it be some random slayer taking place in an earlier decade. All you're doing is basically making a reboot, so just make a reboot. Cause a prequel of all new characers makes no difference other than you're limiting yourself from the start. It's practically like taking all the disadvantages but getting no benefits. Where a reboot has the advantage of getting to do things new, exploring maybe some of the same things as the past in new ways, or just doing things entirely different. But they don't have to worry about the disadvantages like the weight of lore and such.



So your sole reason to just dump the Buffy crew into a blender and hit puree, then see what mismatched mess comes out is just to say 'oh but now we have a mystery they may or may not want to actually solve'? That's just bad reasoning. You can do a reboot and still have any number of mysteries easily. This just sounds like not wanting to let go of the past characters, but not really giving a legit reason to keep them around.
So then by your reasoning they should've just rebooted Star Trek instead of adding on to the universe. Star Trek: Discovery should've just been a reboot of Star Trek instead of a prequel series to the Star Trek universe?

Not to mention Game of Thrones which is getting a prequel series that will expand on the universe, HBO should just reboot the show with the same characters.

Doing a prequel series expands on the universe, thats the whole point. Shows have mysteries all the time and they can be solved. Rebooting Buffy is just a lazy option to do because they want the advantage of having the name instead of trying to build up a new character.

If we cant care about characters in a universe we dont know just because they arent from the mothership then lets have a Prequel series that has Giles' mother or father as the watcher and we can see little baby Giles be born and now we can care about the characters and they can tie it directly into Buffy herself.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 10:30 AM #428
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hasso_primo wrote: View Post

Now that would have made me watch Firefly.
It almost felt like that was the intention, like it was a secret Buffy sequel at some point in conceptualization with the mystery of River and the Reavers but that just altered into standard sci-fi along the way to actual production time.

Peter wrote: View Post

What on Earth difference would that have made?
The Faith storyline of going bad, going to jail, trying to redeem herself when the good guys don't believe in her, and all around stuck in Buffy's shadow aspect of her character all look really different if she was black but in terms of if they just redid it with Faith as a black girl it would force a lot of that storyline to change to accomodate how just that entire premise of redemption through prison would have to play out. To sum it up quickly, it would get political real fast, showcasing how different time for a black girl is than a young white girl going to jail is. If she even made it to jail without getting shot. Essentially Faith's original story would make for a good "the real monster is man" storyline set up in a reboot.

Peter wrote: View Post

Okay, there's two parts of that, that I don't understand. The first one being, Trick was racially problematic? It's a show about demonic evil. If all the antagonists were white (like most of them were, actually), wouldn't that be similarly problematic?
There were other black bad guys. It's that trick was explicitly done as a stereotype in a very 90s way through a white writer's eyes. The problem isn't having a black actor be a bad guy, it's having the bad guy be a stereotype as he does it. Same for doing any non-white villains or really any character, the show kind of leaned into stereotypes pretty heavily as did Angel, just look at Gunn's whole backstory.

And secondly, how is black/promiscuous/evil/insane actually different from white/promiscuous/evil/insane? She's the same person. Why does one of those combinations make production look bad, and the other doesn't? What's the difference? Plenty of peope are promiscuous, evil and/or nuts regardless of their family background.
It's about how different it is for a white girl than a black girl to go through that experience. It's not necessarily looking bad compared to another, it's about how different society treats those two experiences, especially for a late 90s show where much of the storyline took place in LA.

hasso_primo wrote: View Post

It's not about actual intention, it's just about the thoughts that go into people's heads. Just like why in real life Kendra was the only one of the three individual Slayers in the show's entire run that died and after having not done anything particularly noteworthy. It doesn't make the moves deliberate, but it makes you wonder if they could have been.
I think its part of what makes it feel very awkward to have Whedon involved at all. That complete ignorance of how he was doing things, and still does them the same way today, makes the idea of a Whedon produced Black Buffy kind of uncomfortable. Having someone else handle the writing though feels like a good first step, but I'd feel better about it if I knew Whedon wasn't creatively involved on it at all.

Sadsmileyface wrote: View Post

I never knew that Trick was insensitive when I watched it, but all these years later, I can certainly understand why people could feel that he was. I just perceived him as a modern, slick politician. A marketing man.
It's one of those things that horribly dates a show for the worse.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 03:30 PM #429
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I hope that The Powers That Be are mentioned from the start in this new Buffy reboot.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 06:51 PM #430
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Primal Slayer wrote: View Post

So then by your reasoning they should've just rebooted Star Trek instead of adding on to the universe. Star Trek: Discovery should've just been a reboot of Star Trek instead of a prequel series to the Star Trek universe?

Not to mention Game of Thrones which is getting a prequel series that will expand on the universe, HBO should just reboot the show with the same characters.

Doing a prequel series expands on the universe, thats the whole point. Shows have mysteries all the time and they can be solved. Rebooting Buffy is just a lazy option to do because they want the advantage of having the name instead of trying to build up a new character.

If we cant care about characters in a universe we dont know just because they arent from the mothership then lets have a Prequel series that has Giles' mother or father as the watcher and we can see little baby Giles be born and now we can care about the characters and they can tie it directly into Buffy herself.
As one who doesn't watch Star Trek, or GoT, I can't really comment on the specifics.

What could really be expanded upon in the Buffy universe for a prequel that doesn't have anything to do with any of the known characters? You'd have a Slayer, assumedly a Watcher, and she'd fight vamps and other monsters. Likely with a couple friends, and otherwise dealing with life. But really, you're just telling the same story you'd be telling with a reboot except a prequel has to watch what it does cause they can't do anything that can conflict with previously established lore.

With Star Trek, there probably is stuff they can explore. Still doesn't mean what I said wasn't true, they still can't do anything that contradicts lore established in the original series. I mean they can, but doing so just causes the ire of the fans who'll point out their screw up, etc etc. Same goes for GoT. They can tell all the war and political intrigue stories all they want. For all I know there's also stories that can be expanded upon or told that'll be worthwhile in a prequel. But they still carry the burden of not contradicting the original series.

And back to Buffy, me personally I just don't see any reason to bother with it. If they're just going to tell the story of a young woman kicking monster butt anyways, might as well reboot it and save the trouble. Cause there's just not enough draw to tell past stories. We know enough of Angel, Spike, Drucilla, and Darla so don't need to cover them, and they'd need to be recasted at this point anyways to tell past stories. Otherwise, at best maybe the origin of the Watchers. So I correct myself, that's really the only thing I can think of that feels worth exploring, but whether there could be enough to run a series off of, who knows. Beyond that though, what is there worth exploring that needs to be done in Buffy's past that can't just be fodder for a reboot?
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 07:51 PM #431
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Alitain wrote: View Post

Was anyone confused here?
christopherjohn used the term "soft reboot" (which is not a thing that actually exists) and then went on to describe a continuation using in-universe narrative explanations to cover why the cast is totally new...

hence why I assumed he was confused as to the meaning of the term "reboot".
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 08:43 PM #432
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Primal Slayer wrote: View Post

So then by your reasoning they should've just rebooted Star Trek instead of adding on to the universe. Star Trek: Discovery should've just been a reboot of Star Trek instead of a prequel series to the Star Trek universe?
I think the context for the show matters though and you're overlooking that to make these equivalent. Star Trek works because its generations off and always a new cast, it is essentially rebooting itself each time but within the same continuity(usually). It's repiloting more than a reboot, spinning off into a universe built to handle multiple ongoing series concurrently including prequels and generational jumps.

Buffy doesn't leave a clean door for that kind of spin off continuation the way Star Trek does. Buffy's storyline is kind of tightly focused around her and what happens to her, so making a sequel that resets all that story anyway doesn't really make logistical sense. If you're doing that, why is it a sequel at all? That's the big question that needs an answer, you're avoiding that question to focus on a different question instead, "how come other shows can do a sequel or spin off" or "how you can make it work". How isn't as important as why in that context.

Doing a prequel series expands on the universe, thats the whole point. Shows have mysteries all the time and they can be solved. Rebooting Buffy is just a lazy option to do because they want the advantage of having the name instead of trying to build up a new character.
A prequel could work, fine. It was said Buffy was the only Slayer to have this kind of friendship group and relationships/life outside of Slaying but it'd still leave some wiggle room to see how that worked before. The idea though is wanting a modern set version of the show, and because of how it ended that's just not plausible with a continuation/revisit starring new characters in the slayer line without having to just become about the old guard in the first place. If you're going to do a sequel, you need to bring everyone back in this universe's story context. If you're doing a spin off you have to re-establish everything given how long its been off the air, and at that point why spin off instead of start over from scratch too? Maybe it is a bit lazy, but it is a thought you have to go through both as creative and as production in general just to make a show viable, you have to figure out your audience goals before putting it out there. The business side to show business.

Pink Warrior wrote: View Post

I hope that The Powers That Be are mentioned from the start in this new Buffy reboot.
I'd kind of love a joke about how the Powers constantly shift and reboot realities in the game between them and evil. Maybe even toss in a joking reference to describe it like one day you have a little sister but you didn't a day ago.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 09:22 PM #433
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DigificWriter wrote: View Post

christopherjohn used the term "soft reboot" (which is not a thing that actually exists) and then went on to describe a continuation using in-universe narrative explanations to cover why the cast is totally new...

hence why I assumed he was confused as to the meaning of the term "reboot".
Ah, I missed that gotcha makes sense.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I'd kind of love a joke about how the Powers constantly shift and reboot realities in the game between them and evil. Maybe even toss in a joking reference to describe it like one day you have a little sister but you didn't a day ago.
Heh, maybe they'll do the opposite in this version. Give Buffy a sister from the start, then after a season or two the season will start and she'll just be gone with no explanation until some later point when the group finds out reality was messed with.

Been thinking about it though, and I wonder something. So like, okay. Reboot Buffy, fine. You got new black Buffy, like a watcher whom we assume will be called Giles, but then do you think they'll really have her be friends with a girl named Willow and guy named Xander? At odds initially with a popular girl named Cordelia, etc etc? I mean generally in a reboot that's what we'd get, more or less. And that isn't to say they can't. And sure, usually in such instances we'd get the named and somewhat generally attributed characters but maybe in different roles/circumstances. Not saying it's bad or good. But then got me wondering, well so would they just make this new Willow gay? Maybe just do it from the start instead of something she discovers years later? Or what if they didn't, do you think that'd cause an uproar because they made a previously gay character straight? Or what if they swapped and instead the 'gay character' was Xander. Or if they kept preferences and such generally the same, would the show then become too similar to the original? Or will they just give Newffy(okay, that might be bad nevermind) just some new named friends instead, and maybe the only real rebooted named characters will be Buffy, maybe Giles, and maybe Angel? I don't know, random musings I've had.

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Old July 22nd, 2018, 11:12 PM #434
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I'm all for brand new in any possible form it can be found.

The more similarities, the more comparisons, the more whining.
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Old July 23rd, 2018, 01:38 AM #435
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I think that the Powers should give Cordelia the ability to have visions early on. It always was a shame that the Scoobies never got to see her character development on Angel. I think that in season 1 of the reboot have her be the classic bitch that we all know the character to be, then in season 2 have the Powers That Be grant her the visions and seeing all of the pain & suffering in the world matures her character early on. She could gradually evolve into the compassionate, nurturing, Team Mom of the group (a niche that was never really filled amongst the Scoobies in the original series). Also Cordelia having the visions gives her a use amongst the Scoobies. It would save Buffy a lot of time randomly patrolling at night if Cordelia gave her a vision of when & where the vampires will be. Also the Big Bads of the season couldn't launch a sneak attack against the Scoobies or really get away with any type of future attack if Cordelia could see it before it happens.
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Old July 23rd, 2018, 05:59 AM #436
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Since Joss has had a direct hand in the development of this project, there are several ways this could go, IMO:
- A "titular concept" reboot where the conceptual DNA is there but Buffy herself is the only "recognizable holdover" in terms of named characters

- A "straightforward reboot" where the concept and characters are exactly the same as in the original, only with an updated aesthetic and a new more diverse cast

- A "mishmash reboot" where Joss and Ms. Owusu-Breen took every existing thing from the Buffy mythos and cherrypicked whatever they wanted that fit Ms. Owusu-Breen's ideas about doing a new take on the property
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Old July 23rd, 2018, 09:12 AM #437
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So either

Battlestar Galactica

or Bionic Woman

or Heroes Reborn
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Old July 23rd, 2018, 09:48 AM #438
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Sadsmileyface wrote: View Post

So either

Battlestar Galactica

or Bionic Woman

or Heroes Reborn
The new BSG is a mix of Options 1 & 2, NBC's Bionic Woman is an example of Option 2, and Heroes Reborn doesn't fit any of the options because it's not a reboot.
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Old July 23rd, 2018, 11:43 AM #439
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I'm not fond of the reboot idea. There are some tantalizing themes to explore with a black lead that you wouldn't be able to with Sarah Michelle Gellar's version, but why not do a spinoff with previously-established characters? Rona, or even Wood's mother, would be a ripe opportunity for such. You give the lead actress the opportunity to explore the character and stand on her own.

And it would give Joss and Owusu-Breen the chance for original cast members to show up. I would think Sarah would probably cameo in an episode or two.
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Old July 23rd, 2018, 12:36 PM #440
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Sadsmileyface wrote: View Post

So either

Battlestar Galactica

or Bionic Woman

or Heroes Reborn
Bionic Woman was my favorite of those three.

Though that may have been because of Lucy Hale.
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