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Old July 27th, 2019, 01:14 PM #641
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

It's really simple, the Amazing films just weren't amazing. They weren't good stories first, they weren't building up characters or telling a fun adventure, they were by the numbers mixed up and re-edited over and over again genre flicks that were sort of afraid of embracing the comic source just as the method of embracing the source was turning out to be exactly what the audience wanted.

Also, it probably didn't help the costumes looked so bad.



I don't know, it's pretty close already, this weekend alone could probably push it over or at least tie it up.
on box-office mojo, i'm only able to find the adjusted for inflation domestic records only, but not for world-wide total, so i'm not sure what the world-wide total for the first Spider-Man film from 2002 would be world-wide when adjusted for inflation
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Old July 27th, 2019, 01:29 PM #642
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leolim wrote: View Post

3 MCU movies reach 1 billion this year wow just wow.
Not just that, but the only 3 MCU films this year. Impressive to have 2019 on lock like that.
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Old July 27th, 2019, 02:04 PM #643
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BluePR wrote: View Post

Probably the best place for this ...

Why do you think The Amazing Spider-Man films weren't as good or successful as this reboot?
I liked ASM, maybe outside of Lizard's design. It was a good movie, but for many people it might have felt it's too soon after Maguire's movies. ASM2 was a mess, though.

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And in particular, why do you think the movie version of the death of Gwen wasn't well-regarded?
Because the plan for ASM2 was "kill Gwen and introduce MJ", which they felt later was in a bad taste, so they changed it to what we got... and we got a mess. I think it would have worked better if the movie ended with Peter mourning and his father revealing himself to be alive, and not the cheerful scene with the kid trying to fight Rhino. Perfect setup for the third movie.

They also spent a lot of time establishing things that were easily forgotten, because they had a plan to kickstart their own MCU with a lots of spin-offs, so they pumped a lot of money into ASM2... and the results were far from desired. Yet it seems now that if they went ahead with Venom then, they could have gotten a good result.

MCU Spidey is much more different as not only he's younger and not tied to Uncle Ben's death (as far as we know), but his relation to the other MCU heroes puts him in a different perspective; a teenage hero who has role models in the business and not just a snarky vigilante (although I imagine once he grows older, he'll adopt more sarcastic attitude).
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Old July 27th, 2019, 02:12 PM #644
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Also, it probably didn't help the costumes looked so bad.
Making Andrew Garfield "Spider-Man II" was probably the most inventive thing ASM did.
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Old July 27th, 2019, 05:05 PM #645
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BluePR wrote: View Post

Probably the best place for this ...

Why do you think The Amazing Spider-Man films weren't as good or successful as this reboot?

And in particular, why do you think the movie version of the death of Gwen wasn't well-regarded?
I still enjoy Amazing just fine. I like Garfield's Peter, the story was fun, it was all good. Not, pun intended sure, "amazing" exactly, but I think it was a good movie. I enjoyed Peter's struggle with initially only caring about finding Ben's killer, but then understanding he could do so much more, be more, with his powers. And I think Gwen was nice(also Emma Stone rocks, so that helps), and Captain Stacy was a nice inclusion and one not really seen outside of the comics.

Amazing 2 though...was Sony getting hyper excited about the success of the first and in doing so, freaked themselves out so they ended up panicking and trying to do too much. I like Electro as a villain; a regular, invisible guy gets screwed over in an accident and ends up with powers and now he's suddenly getting attention but not the kind he wanted, and with his mindset, things go awry. If they had JUST focused on Electro, would've been a better movie. But it was the same issues that plagued Raimi's third Spider-Man; too much. In that one Sandman was an interesting, solid villain and really Electro's story was more or less the same.

Then in Amazing 2 they had to put in the Harry/Goblin crap. Harry in and of himself, fine. If they had just introduced him, had Peter rekindle their friendship while stuff is going down with Electro, solid. But the Osborn disease and everything was a rushed mess that should've only been hinted at and then left for a third movie. You could still have Norman scaring Harry with their "family legacy". Still have Harry start showing some mind signs during the film, but then basically leave it at that. Maybe have him be more frantic by the end, secretly obsessive over finding some cure, and then something or other he maybe learns of Spider-Man's blood, maybe gets some from his battle with Electro, who knows. But then leave him being Goblin for the next movie.

Instead you have Peter deal with Electro, but then suddenly we have this tacked on battle with Harry as the Goblin. Probably why people were upset with Gwen's death(though I wasn't necessarily). Because the whole set up for it was tacked on. Again, could've saved the death for the third film. Hell, have Goblin kill her part way through the movie while Peter is struggling with fighting him and some other villain that's shown up. Now he has to deal with Gwen's death, yeah would've been brutal and could've had the weight it deserved. Here it was technically fine, dramatic, etc etc. But the whole thing just felt tacked on so Sony could shove their Sinister Six agenda on the audience in hopes it'd get them hyped. But that's not really how it works.
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Old July 27th, 2019, 08:30 PM #646
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AkaPrimoWhiteDragon wrote: View Post

Making Andrew Garfield "Spider-Man II" was probably the most inventive thing ASM did.
It was rather impressive he was able to make a skin tight and flexible suit from what appeared to be basketball material.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 02:16 PM #647
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Ok I just finished the movie. It's overall fine, not as good as Spider Man 2 though.

But I really think Mysterio was right on his technology. Tony Stark was a big fool to waste such a thing. If he could enhance the illusion projector with his own tech, both the problem in Civil War and the Infinity War could have much handled much easier.

Last edited by TuxedoK; July 29th, 2019 at 03:31 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 03:02 PM #648
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Slowpokeking wrote: View Post

Ok I just finished the movie. It's overall fine, not as good as Spider Man 2 though.

But I really think Mysterio was right on his technology. Tony Stark was a big fool to waste such a thing. If he could enhance the illusion projector with his own tech, both the problem in Civil War and the Infinity War could have much handled much easier.
What was problem in civil war and infinity war?

I donít think illusions would have stopped Thanos. Ofcourse it wasnít the solution/future outcome to bring everyone back

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Old July 29th, 2019, 03:27 PM #649
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^ Consider the way Thanos are it was not illusion which going to deseive him, since he could had the reality Stone or even without him, well Thanos is a Eternal was well i suppose that change the table for real, and for Civil War i really give credit to Zemo because was a villan without so much power make the Avengers battle between them, is much like in Black Pather shows is not need a SuperVillan/Robot etc...to destroy a SuperHero or had powers.

The Spider-Men movies were in general pretty good i nthe case of the Amazing, i suppose Sony had hurry to droo everything in the same movie, because even in the Amazing 2 they gives a glimpse of the Sinister Six because we saw there all the gear for the future alliance, i think the best think the movies worked was the fact the Powers were always destined for Peter, and for this duolog yLizard were more presente that Electro

The New movies Homecoming and Far Away Home were really well done, which give credits a lot and really liked much this movie since were more about Marvel had the creative way, the all Tony was kind of Father figure to Peter, and the Avengers, since the last movie they really make everything always works, honest the Mysterio is everything was expected, because the all battle with the illusions was stunning, and gives the hints of Secret Invasion and Avengers Next was sweet for real.

Mysterio ideia i liked before he was defeated and tells to Peter " 'People, they need to believe. And nowadays, they'll believe anything.'

Last edited by Akumaru; July 29th, 2019 at 03:42 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 03:55 PM #650
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Gold Samurai wrote: View Post

What was problem in civil war and infinity war?

I donít think illusions would have stopped Thanos. Ofcourse it wasnít the solution/future outcome to bring everyone back
Why wouldn't? Even the Skull could not figure it out. Like on Titan, all they need to do is use the illusion to cover themselves and finish Thanos off. Or on Wakanda to use it to mislead Thanos' army to attack each other so everyone could focus on Thanos. Also it could be used to hide Vision.

If Thor was covered by it, his axe attack would likely finish Thanos in the first place since Thanos would not see him coming at all.


Akumaru wrote: View Post

^ Consider the way Thanos are it was not illusion which going to deseive him, since he could had the reality Stone or even without him, well Thanos is a Eternal was well i suppose that change the table for real, and for Civil War i really give credit to Zemo because was a villan without so much power make the Avengers battle between them, is much like in Black Pather shows is not need a SuperVillan/Robot etc...to destroy a SuperHero or had powers.

How is Thanos supposed to know there is illusion around him or not? He would not have known it in the first place thus not using the Stone at all.

Also where did it say the Reality Stone to destroy illusion, it's not magic.

Last edited by Slowpokeking; July 29th, 2019 at 04:01 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 09:23 PM #651
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Slowpokeking wrote: View Post


How is Thanos supposed to know there is illusion around him or not? He would not have known it in the first place thus not using the Stone at all.

Also where did it say the Reality Stone to destroy illusion, it's not magic.
Same way he knew how to beat Strange's magical illusion, the Soul Stone shows where the real person is, the Reality stone keeps illusions at bay or breaks them outright.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 09:55 PM #652
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Same way he knew how to beat Strange's magical illusion, the Soul Stone shows where the real person is, the Reality stone keeps illusions at bay or breaks them outright.
Because he KNEW Strange was using illusion.

How is he going to know anyone is using illusion to cloak themselves to ambush him?

That's what mostly dangerous about illusion, you can be caught offguard any time, even if you have the ability to counter it, you can't keep it all the time especially if you don't know your enemy has it.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 09:58 PM #653
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Same way he knew how to beat Strange's magical illusion, the Soul Stone shows where the real person is, the Reality stone keeps illusions at bay or breaks them outright.
Exactly. Magical or technical illusions would not have fooled Thanos for very long
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Old July 29th, 2019, 10:01 PM #654
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Gold Samurai wrote: View Post

Exactly. Magical or technical illusions would not have fooled Thanos for very long
How is he going to know anyone is using illusion against him if they just cloak themselves to do the illusion, or even use others as distraction?

It doesn't have to be long. Like on Titan, simply cloak Strange and get close to use Time Stone to turn him into dust, or cloak Vision for a bit longer for Thor to kill him off.

If they use it on Wakanda, it would easily turn the army against each other and finish them off.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 10:04 PM #655
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Slowpokeking wrote: View Post

Because he KNEW Strange was using illusion.

How is he going to know anyone is using illusion to cloak themselves to ambush him?

That's what mostly dangerous about illusion, you can be caught offguard any time, even if you have the ability to counter it, you can't keep it all the time especially if you don't know your enemy has it.
To prep an illusion like that, you'd have to know when and where Thanos would be arrive too, though. Otherwise he sees it coming.

Besides having Soul and Reality to block any illusion trickery, he would also have the time stone to prevent any unforeseen consequences of his own actions.

it's just not a feasible defense to rely on being able to trick someone that strong with EDITH like that. There are too many variables that have to be perfectly met to make it work.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 10:09 PM #656
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

To prep an illusion like that, you'd have to know when and where Thanos would be arrive too, though. Otherwise he sees it coming.
Strange already saw it with the time stone. Besides, they just need to cloak themselves.


Besides having Soul and Reality to block any illusion trickery, he would also have the time stone to prevent any unforeseen consequences of his own actions.
No, you have to use the stone to make effect, if he doesn't know he wouldn't use their power.

Thanos doesn't have the Time Stone before the Titan encounter.

After that he didn't look at the future otherwise he would have wiped out everyone in the end.

it's just not a feasible defense to rely on being able to trick someone that strong with EDITH like that. There are too many variables that have to be perfectly met to make it work.
It's powerful enough to fool the Skull, the master shapeshifter all the way, why wouldn't it fool Thanos? And it would also work on his army which means Wakanda and all the other heroes could simply focus on him so Thor could chop him before he got all six.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 10:30 PM #657
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Slowpokeking wrote: View Post

Strange already saw it with the time stone. Besides, they just need to cloak themselves.
Yeah, Strange only saw it because he was prepping for the fight. No one else, least of all Tony Stark who'd be in control of Edith at this point if he didn't invent the satellite part during the Blip, would be able to do anything or know to use the illusion. Heck, Tony got accidently sent into space, he wasn't going to be ready or able to communicate back to the still disassembled Avengers that they should turn the magic hologram machine on.

No, you have to use the stone to make effect, if he doesn't know he wouldn't use their power.

Thanos doesn't have the Time Stone before the Titan encounter.

After that he didn't look at the future otherwise he would have wiped out everyone in the end.
So when he got to Earth, chasing the last stones, and didn't see anyone, he'd immediately use the stones to find the others or his Black Order and find out what is going on. At which point to effectively use EDITH against him and his forces, someone would have to be ready to strike at Thanos and sneak up on him before he could use the stones to find people.

Thanos doesn't come to Earth until he gets the Time Stone, so I don't see the problem there. He didn't look into the future, but he did reverse time to get the Mind Stone back. So it's already a bad situation going in.

It's powerful enough to fool the Skull, the master shapeshifter all the way, why wouldn't it fool Thanos? And it would also work on his army which means Wakanda and all the other heroes could simply focus on him so Thor could chop him before he got all six.
Because the Skrull didn't have several infinity stones and their powers to fall back on? Being a master shapeshifter doesn't matter in this scenario either, it just doesn't apply to anything involved.

The second you use the illusion and they realize it's a trick, the move is shot though. They're going to notice their army is killing itself at some point, so the only way it works is if Thanos arrives right next to Thor without telling his Black order and doesn't use his stones to find the other stones, and leaves himself in a vulnerable position to be sucker punched. Again, its just a lot of variables that have to be perfectly met to make it work. Including Tony having it ready to go ahead of being abducted into Space.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 10:37 PM #658
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Thereís a lot of variables to get right and itís just over complicating the matter with little to no time to prep.

Itís probably one of the 14 million scenarios that saw the Avengers losing and not heading toward the path of Endgame
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Old July 29th, 2019, 10:58 PM #659
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Yeah, Strange only saw it because he was prepping for the fight.
He has the direction from Strange, that's enough.

No one else, least of all Tony Stark who'd be in control of Edith at this point if he didn't invent the satellite part during the Blip, would be able to do anything or know to use the illusion. Heck, Tony got accidently sent into space, he wasn't going to be ready or able to communicate back to the still disassembled Avengers that they should turn the magic hologram machine on.
He didn't because he didn't pay attention to the technology. And even Mysterio didn't need the satellite to create illusion, it's just for enhancing it to a bigger level of destruction which is not required in the Titan fight. Tony didn't need it to project in the beginning of Civil War either.

Remember if Tony had paid attention to it, it's very easy for him to merge the technology with his armor.




So when he got to Earth, chasing the last stones, and didn't see anyone, he'd immediately use the stones to find the others or his Black Order and find out what is going on.
No, the technology could FAKE the image of ANYONE. That's why Illusion is so dangerous and scary, it can catch you offguard by making you comfortable.


Thanos doesn't come to Earth until he gets the Time Stone, so I don't see the problem there. He didn't look into the future, but he did reverse time to get the Mind Stone back. So it's already a bad situation going in.
So he would not expect illusion


Because the Skrull didn't have several infinity stones and their powers to fall back on? Being a master shapeshifter doesn't matter in this scenario either, it just doesn't apply to anything involved.
And same with Thanos if he doesn't use it to find out. How is he going to find out if he doesn't know he was tricked?

The second you use the illusion and they realize it's a trick, the move is shot though.
No, it fooled everyone for very long.

They're going to notice their army is killing itself at some point, so the only way it works is if Thanos arrives right next to Thor without telling his Black order and doesn't use his stones to find the other stones, and leaves himself in a vulnerable position to be sucker punched. Again, its just a lot of variables that have to be perfectly met to make it work. Including Tony having it ready to go ahead of being abducted into Space.
Why? Thanos is not going to see his army killing each other, the illusion will cover them like if they were attacking enemies. Thus he will be fooled and even if he could figure out the heroes would have mostly finished his army and kill him off together.
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Old July 29th, 2019, 11:49 PM #660
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Slowpokeking wrote: View Post

He has the direction from Strange, that's enough.
Who has the direction? Stark? Stark's stuck on Titan with Strange when that goes down, he can't use EDITH from there, that's the whole problem. He's cut off from Earth.

Remember if Tony had paid attention to it, it's very easy for him to merge the technology with his armor.
Sure, but then it'd be totally wasted on Titan when Thanos is using the Soul Stone. The entire premise you're pitching here requires an entirely different series of events to take place for the tech to be useful against Thanos. That's all I'm trying to get across really. The scenario needs to be different than what went down in the films to work, not just Stark having BARF in his suit ahead of time, but every plot moment needs to be changed to make it work.

And that all relies on the idea the Black Order or Thanos wouldn't be able to suss it out the way Parker did.
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