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Old August 15th, 2019, 09:02 PM #6141
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

Well I mean... I'd wager murdering Trans women after you've had sex with them to be a greater sign of Toxic Masculinity, but sure... the way you use it makes me think you don't actually know what it means and have just heard it banded about...
Next time let me just put an xd after my joke
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Old August 15th, 2019, 09:04 PM #6142
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

It's because Lesbians are hot to straight men and thus not threatening to the straight male clientele. Trans Women are Earth Shattering to them even though if you pick their brains, or have ever been on Grindr, straight men love Trans women they just won't attach their face to it. It's why violence against Trans women is so high because of high propensity of them in Sex Work.
You're right. Even in the Avatar franchise which is a franchise I really love you have Korra, Asami, Kya was confirmed to be a lesbian and even Avatar Kyoshi was confirmed to be bisexual with Rangi being her girlfriend. Five queer characters and they're all cis women. No men. It's not fair. We shouldn't have to cater representation to straight mens sexual fantasies.

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Old August 15th, 2019, 09:06 PM #6143
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Allio wrote: View Post

Next time let me just put an xd after my post.
Well it's not so much that post as much as this one.

Perhaps there is the stench of "Toxic Masculinity" that is in the air nowadays. Because of this some people might be afraid to write a gay man and not have him be "toxc masculinity" only to be told he is a stereotype.
It doesn't even make any sense...
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Old August 15th, 2019, 09:46 PM #6144
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

The answer is straight men in comics can't handle their own lives and will start throwing around "Forced Diversity" and shit. It's to protect their fragile egos. That's literally all there is. They're incredibly insecure about any possible change or hint that a character they've known for years may enjoy playing swords in the bedroom.
See any implication Spider-Man could be Bisexual for example. We all know there's strong sexual tension between him and the Human Torch!
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Old August 15th, 2019, 09:53 PM #6145
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there is a joke about Human torch being flamming....but I ain't gonna fan it.

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Old August 15th, 2019, 09:53 PM #6146
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SonicBlueRanger wrote: View Post

See any implication Spider-Man could be Bisexual for example. We all know there's strong sexual tension between him and the Human Torch!
But that's the thing...it's IMPLIED not stated. We've had rangers that were implied to be gay but nobody from the production or writing team will ever come out will ever say "Yeah man Riley totally wanted to bang the shit outta Chase." It's the same with queer male rep in other franchises. It's usually implied but never stated. Not always the case but usually is.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 10:14 PM #6147
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

It doesn't even make any sense...

That was more hyper-bole on my part.

Though I do believe there is like there is a fear of stereotyping. No matter how you write a character it's always going to be a tricky subject. Like how far does queer coding go until it becomes a "stereotype."

I mean some people would just say "Write a character that happens to be gay." but that doesn't always go well. Remember when JK rowling said Dumbledore was gay? A lot of people dismissed it simply because it wasn't written in the books that way. And now I can't determine my sexuality until JK rowling tells me in a tweet.


Though I do now have another theory. Something that I got when I was looking up queer coding in regards to a conversation I had the other day.

In the 50's and 60's the US had a major problem with playing the villain "Gay." This left characters to either be flamboyant male, or a dominate female.

the issue today may still derive from this. But for the female characters in of itself we just kind of go with the flow of the "dominate" female especially when it's a given to the "action girl." Can't tell you how many tumblr posts i've seen of "Captain marvel is total lez" or "Please top me, queen." I'm sure many people believe Bayonetta has no preferences in bed. Be it human or whatever.



Which is seen as a positive. Even when "dominating," strength will always be preferrable to weakness. It feels like nowadays no female can be a princess. You can be prissy, but you have ot have something that makes you "one of the boys," Lola Loud is honestly the worst loud sister - As a twin she is clearly suppose to be the mirror to Lana's grease monkey persona but it doesn't work when she can get dirty just like lana... When all the sisters are suppose to have a cliche, it doesn't work when she is the only one that doesn't fit in.


But then you get to writing a gay male character. A strong female character, and she is les/bi? It's a cheap gimmick, but the lowest common denominator monkeys (Tumblr/twitter) love it. Now What of the male one?

As I mentioned before you can write a normal manly character and make him gay...but then you have the sheep (tumblr/twitter) that will go on a tyraid and say it doesn't count. Even though, you know, there are plenty of "normal men" that are gay. but alas, dumbasses.

But of course no body is stupid to write the gay best friend character. I suppose nobody really wants to step on that bomb shell. Like what would be the perfect "Gay character type."

My first thought that comes to my mind is "If steven was gay/bi, I don't think many would mind" which I do think it's bad because as a US society we are shown as tears as "weakness." A man that cries is referred to as showing his femine side, but if the character was gay I could see people sprouting bullshit like "Oh, because he is gay he cries, because you think gay is weakness." or whatever buzzwords tumblr can throw out.


As for trans characters? Nothing really is popping up in my head, just in general there really isn't many trans characters that are influential. I feel like animation wise where would go designing a trans character would fall problematic between drawing a drag queen and drawing a female character and just saying it's "male" or vice versa.



My perspective of course is shrewded. I watch many types of programs from around the world, each with their own perspective on this stuff (US forcuses on lesbians, while japan is yaoi dominate) So I always try not to get my hands into this kind of talk.

Even as a writer my writing often tends to have me writing female characters (about 89% of my characters are female) and while I don't write romances at all, if I were, I would write a lesbian one just for simple possibilities. Male characters tend to be on the side line. Despite having written a couple I'm definitely not meant to talking about the psychological part of writing gay characters. Especially with my love of tragedies.


-----


Which makes me want to ask this question.


How far can "queer-coding," or characters to be implied gay (Riley/Chase), go before it becomes a stereotype?

Last edited by Allio; August 15th, 2019 at 10:23 PM.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 10:35 PM #6148
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Allio wrote: View Post

That was more hyper-bole on my part.

Though I do believe there is like there is a fear of stereotyping. No matter how you write a character it's always going to be a tricky subject. Like how far does queer coding go until it becomes a "stereotype."
It's actually INCREDIBLY easy. LGBT characters are not some unicorns that science just hasn't figured out yet and if you're a straight or cis writer who needs help with it... there literally so many people willing to help you. This "But when will it become stereotyping?" is such a cop out. You don't know black people, but you're sure as shit going to write them without knowing their experience to a T.

I mean some people would just say "Write a character that happens to be gay." but that doesn't always go well. Remember when JK rowling said Dumbledore was gay? A lot of people dismissed it simply because it wasn't written in the books that way. And now I can't determine my sexuality until JK rowling tells me in a tweet.
I also remember that JK has also gone on to say a lot of stupid shit she just neglected to put in the book. It's not that people are upset that Dumbledore is gay it's that she says it was her plan all along when it clearly was not or is not willing to say her publisher wouldn't allow her to because JK Rowling is the richest woman in the UK and say whatever she wants and her Publisher isn't going to pipe up and threaten her. She doesn't because it wasn't the plan and she only decided it after the fact when she didn't have to deal with actual backlash.

Though I do now have another theory. Something that I got when I was looking up queer coding in regards to a conversation I had the other day.

In the 50's and 60's the US had a major problem with playing the villain "Gay." This left characters to either be flamboyant male, or a dominate female.

the issue today may still derive from this. But for the female characters in of itself we just kind of go with the flow of the "dominate" female especially when it's a given to the "action girl." Can't tell you how many tumblr posts i've seen of "Captain marvel is total lez" or "Please top me, queen."
There's no need for a theory... again... we know why Gay/Bi women are used far more than gay/bi men. It's because Straight Men. I don't really know how many times this needs to be repeated, but media is created largely by the gaze of straight men. If Bi/Lesbian women get to enjoy those characters, great, but know that they were not the intention.

But then you get to writing a gay male character. A strong female character, and she is les/bi? It's a cheap gimmick, but the lowest common denominator monkeys (Tumblr/twitter) love it. Now What of the male one?

As I mentioned before you can write a normal manly character and make him gay...but then you have the sheep (tumblr/twitter) that will go on a tyraid and say it doesn't count. Even though, you know, there are plenty of "normal men" that are gay. but alas, dumbasses.
What is this propensity that the loudest voices on Tumblr are somehow representative of the entire world. You know the amount of people who were actually upset about Black Ariel? Not a lot, but articles continued to tell you about their outrage so they can get clicks. You need to stop thinking about how Twitter or Tumblr is going to take things.

My first thought that comes to my mind is "If steven was gay/bi, I don't think many would mind" which I do think it's bad because as a US society we are shown as tears as "weakness." A man that cries is referred to as showing his femine side, but if the character was gay I could see people sprouting bullshit like "Oh, because he is gay he cries, because you think gay is weakness." or whatever buzzwords tumblr can throw out.
You mean Steven Universe? The show with such huge LGBT themes & LGBT fandom? That show? You think a lot of people are going to be upset if Steven was gay? Steven Universe? That show? We're talking about the same show?


As for trans characters? Nothing really is popping up in my head, just in general there really isn't many trans characters that are influential. I feel like animation wise where would go designing a trans character would fall problematic between drawing a drag queen and drawing a female character and just saying it's "male" or vice versa.
Oh my god...

Like the entire cast of Pose. You know how you actually highlight LGBT people and create influential Trans characters? With LGBT Writers, cast, and directors. You have straight and cis writers too chicken shit to actually try anything or ask for help and you have studio heads too chicken shit to hire LGBT people to do the job themselves.

My perspective of course is shrewded. I watch many types of programs from around the world, each with their own perspective on this stuff (US forcuses on lesbians, while japan is yaoi dominate) So I always try not to get my hands into this kind of talk.
It's very shrouded, your entire frame of reference seems to be from porn.


How far can "queer-coding," or characters to be implied gay (Riley/Chase), before it becomes a stereotype?
My answer is hire LGBT creators and we don't have to deal with this shit. Even if not in the show proper due to international implications, the comics. Sina Grace is gay. He created the first Drag Queen Mutant for X-Men. I don't lay all of the work of the first out Gay Male Ranger at his feet, but I expect his editors and Hasbro to back him up.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 10:45 PM #6149
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

It's very shrouded, your entire frame of reference seems to be from porn.
Judgmental much? You don't see me jumping to conclusions about your personality.

Xenotome wrote: View Post

It's actually INCREDIBLY easy. LGBT characters are not some unicorns that science just hasn't figured out yet and if you're a straight or cis writer who needs help with it... there literally so many people willing to help you. This "But when will it become stereotyping?" is such a cop out. You don't know black people, but you're sure as shit going to write them without knowing their experience to a T.
Pretty much this is all to it. Isn't hard. I know I'm always asking around about my characters.


as for Pose...saw the first couple of episodes. Might try some more.

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Old August 15th, 2019, 10:47 PM #6150
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Allio wrote: View Post

Judgmental much? You don't see me jumping to conclusions about your personality.
Not judgmental, but you continue framing it in terms of Tumblr and Yaoi which while yes popular, is still just a niche. Yaoi's popularity with young girls doesn't say anything about how poorly the entire LGBT community is treated in Japan even by a lot of those same young girls. Yaoi is fantasy, not policy. It's not actual representation for LGBT community just as a lot of Lesbian representation isn't in the US. It's for gawkers and onlookers.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 11:08 PM #6151
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I supposed it's coming back to the general audience programming. Kind of reminds me how "Ma" made fun of the "diverse group of friends" when she said to the black boy "There is only one room for us" and painted the boy's face white. Pretty hysterical commentary.


Shit....I think it might be too late for this. my mind is going fuzzy and stupid. I'm heading to bed. If I care about this conversation in the morning, I'll be more than happy to continue it.

g'night.

Edit: my post in regards to Yaoi is mainly in response to your regards of the lesbian straight man fantasy. Both sides are like this.

You excessively brought up the lesbian = straight male, then I bring up the alternative. But then you said my point of reference is “porn” when your whole target of debate is “lesbians are hot”

I mean I bring up "yaoi" once as a counterpoint to a conversation you create and suddenly it's my "entire frame of reference."

Personally as an asexual, I don't really care about your "porn fantasy" scapegoat.

Edit: This isn't even worth my time anymore. This will be my post in regards to this. Good day.

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Old August 15th, 2019, 11:13 PM #6152
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Okay. So. A couple of quick positives before the rant.

I liked the scene between Zedd and Finster. Honestly, Season 2 could've used a scene like this at some point. The way the comic is with callbacks to the show, I'm surprised they didn't reference Finster dissing Zedd at the end of The Mutiny ("If only he'd used one of my monsters, none of this would've ever happened"), though I suppose there's still time for that somewhere down the line. I also liked (and simultaneously hated) the scene where Matt showed up and put two and two together concerning Tommy - I liked it because they're not just ditching characters because their one specific story arc is over. I hated it because Jesus enough of Matt already. I feel like he's been the second biggest character in the comics after Tommy/Drakkon.


I've gotta say, though... I'm not really feeling this whole Omega Ranger/Blue Emissary arc so far (and I'm throwing the MMPR and Go Go issues together on this point). Yeah, it's cool that Shattered Grid is having repercussions and all that, but Jesus, the timing of this idea/arc is just awful. WE JUST HAD an entire arc with a being very closely tied to the Morphing Grid, along with a team of mysterious/alien/different Rangers doing things out in space away from the MMPR team in Beyond the Grid. And then they immediately follow it up with the same thing, just the Morphin Grid person is on the Rangers' side now (and with the type of story this is, that probably won't last too long)? Crissakes, Boom.

Meanwhile, we finally have LORD ZEDD in the main line of comics for the first time in three years, and he's had three or four issues of doing absolutely jack shit. The White Ranger, Rocky, Adam, Aisha, and the Thunder Zords have been similarly meaningless. They introduced a potentially badass new villain with Dayne and so far all he's done is binge watch some MMPR reruns on Netflix.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't mind so much if the two series were at least telling different stories. During Beyond the Grid, Go Go was telling a completely unrelated story, not "Right Before the Grid." I wanna see Zedd! I wanna see the White Ranger! We finally get Season 2 elements introduced into the comic and now we've gotta focus on more fucking comic original Rangers. Enough with the comic original Rangers! We've already had Drakkon*, Ranger Slayer, and Solar Ranger (and friends). That's enough for now! This is Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, not Mighty Morphin Whatever the Hell Boom Felt Like Making Up This Week.


*Now that I think about it, what IS Drakkon's Ranger form called, anyway? The Black Dragon Ranger? Lord Drakkon is HIS name.
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Old August 16th, 2019, 06:42 AM #6153
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I agree with most everything you said, MegaZeo - the exception being that I don't mind Matt as much, but I know he is grating for others.

I think that the next issue of MMPR will focus back on Zedd, Dayne, and the Stone Canyon trio. In the last Ranger Danger podcast with Ryan, he mentioned that he felt it was necessary to set-up the Omega Rangers and show a little of what they'll be dealing with. I hope we see more of how brutal Zedd is supposed to be, and also hope that we get backstory for Kiya & also a fifth Omega ranger (even if not pink [shame..], I still would like a fifth.)


Personally have been calling his ranger form the Black Dragon Ranger because I don't think "Lord Drakkon" constitutes as a ranger designation. Plus BD was his morphing call.


I also agree with the things being shared around Ellarian, and representation. It's nice to have this confirmation (even though we been knew.gif), and I hope that this is a sign of other representation coming down the line because we should get that. [I'll take another Ninja Steel appearance if they wanna throw in some Calvin/Preston >_>;]
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Old August 16th, 2019, 08:05 AM #6154
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Soulspice wrote: View Post

Some 'art' I made of the Omega Rangers in live action. I used their looks from the Cyber Force poster, cos it's the look they would have had when they left for the peace conference.:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EB11deeW...g&name=900x900

This next one as a spoiler in case somebody doesn't know about
Kiya. I used some random model head for her.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EByp7C1X...g&name=900x900


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_63PfJX...g&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_67y18X...g&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBymBQJX...g&name=900x900





nice to see a 'real' representation of the costumes...I think the shoulderpads would be made of something non-fabric if existed in real life
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Old August 16th, 2019, 08:11 AM #6155
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Harpsikord wrote: View Post

I agree. I feel like Go Go has run out of ideas that it can do set within it's season one / early season two parameters, and may honestly just be biding time until they can change concepts. Honestly, it should really be a vehicle for the original trio (+ Kiya and whoever they get to be Omega Pink) as the Omega Rangers and their shenanigans once their introduction in the main title finishes.
I feel like Go Go would work as a anthology type series that has stories about different rotating ranger teams. But I don't dislike the idea of the Omega Rangers having their own book.
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Old August 16th, 2019, 11:33 AM #6156
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mookie wrote: View Post

I agree with most everything you said, MegaZeo - the exception being that I don't mind Matt as much, but I know he is grating for others.
I actually liked Matt and his story line at first, but I feel like it would've been most effective if the last time we saw him was the issue where he demanded the Rangers tell him the truth, but they couldn't and he left. But he just kept sticking around after that. He hung around for so long that he and Kim eventually kissed and made up (not literally) so now the haunted response Kim gives her mom when she mentions Matt in that one issue of MMPR doesn't make any sense any more.

mookie wrote: View Post

Personally have been calling his ranger form the Black Dragon Ranger because I don't think "Lord Drakkon" constitutes as a ranger designation. Plus BD was his morphing call.
That's the logic I'd use for calling it the Black Dragon Ranger too, but I'm hesitant to do so is because the Green Ranger wasn't called the Dragonzord Ranger, y'know?
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Old August 16th, 2019, 11:37 AM #6157
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Allio wrote: View Post

Edit: my post in regards to Yaoi is mainly in response to your regards of the lesbian straight man fantasy. Both sides are like this.

You excessively brought up the lesbian = straight male, then I bring up the alternative. But then you said my point of reference is “porn” when your whole target of debate is “lesbians are hot”

I mean I bring up "yaoi" once as a counterpoint to a conversation you create and suddenly it's my "entire frame of reference."
Yaoi is literally porn though. You can't just call every romantic gay relationship in media yaoi.
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Old August 16th, 2019, 11:41 AM #6158
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