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Old April 29th, 2019, 10:07 PM #121
> AkaCornSnackEtc
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I feel like people have said what they'd like done better: Less silly dialogue, less focus on or outright no comedy duo, writing on par with Jungle Fury, or even Dino Charge.

Dino Charge, another season that managed to garner a ton of praise and support just, didn't force comedy instead letting the characters just be naturally funny, gave a fun, charming villain that still managed to do stuff on occasion. Less inconsistencies in characters than BM has had.

The show managed to go years without a lot of the things people dislike here.
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Old April 29th, 2019, 10:13 PM #122
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AkaCornSnackEtc wrote: View Post

less focus on or outright no comedy duo
And we got that one. The length of Ben and Betty in each episode usually adds up to about a minute if they aren't involved with the plot.

I completely understand disliking them. That's a fair complaint. Again, I hope we take a step back from comedy duos after next year. But at least this time their screentime is reduced. It's getting better, even if it's not exactly where we want it to be yet.
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Old April 29th, 2019, 10:18 PM #123
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AkaGreen wrote: View Post

And we got that one. The length of Ben and Betty in each episode usually adds up to about a minute if they aren't involved with the plot.

But I completely understand disliking them. That's a fair complaint. Again, I hope we take a step back from comedy duos after next year. But at least this time their screentime is reduced.
But they're still overplayed.

The taser joke was repeated what, 4 times in one episode?
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Old April 29th, 2019, 10:31 PM #124
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AkaCornSnackEtc wrote: View Post

But they're still overplayed.
Sometimes, yeah. Some of their scenes are forced and could've been cut out.

But most of the time, they show up at the start, do their thing, and disappear until the end. The only time they appear in between is when they're involved with the plot. (Except the bike episode)

The taser joke was repeated what, 4 times in one episode?
But we don't see them repeating jokes like that all the time. Again, at least half the time, we barely see them.

I'm not saying they're funny characters, I'm just saying they've gotten a lot less focus, which is what people were asking for.
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Old April 29th, 2019, 10:50 PM #125
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I'm going to just have to disagree and assume any reason I give won't be good enough for you because you've made up your mind and have your own opinions on what it "should be" and what it already is.
You could try and give me a dozen reasons why you think the Earth is flat, but I'm not going to listen to any of those, either. What I find particularly galling about that comment is that you are the very first person to remind us how the show is designed for kids and that we, the evil horrible adult fans, are not the primary audience. But suddenly, when it suits you to be disagreeable, "The majority of this show is for the adults"?

Come on.

Alitain wrote: View Post

Don't forget he was programmed to seek and destroy plastic jugs. Preferably after hanging them.
... I'll pay that.
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Old April 29th, 2019, 11:40 PM #126
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I see the writing as done with a competency that is for kids but does not alienate an older audience. That's the sweet spot for any kids show with a subsection belonging to an older audience.
Yeah that's true and all but like we've said before there are kids shows out there that achieve that standard way better than what Power Rangers is doing. Their writing is far better than "scientifically cats are afraid of dogs" or "people falling into goo" and it still manages to be for kids.

And don't say "Oh those are secretly adult shows disguised as shows for kids." If it's on a kids network or block then as far as I'm concerned it's for kids.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 12:09 AM #127
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

It's problems are not anything you can't find in a season prior to the Neo-Saban era.
SonicBlueRanger wrote: View Post

That's...pretty standard Power Rangers dialogue TBH.

Making comments about their new powers and how cool they are and how you should buy the toys has literally been there since day one.
So again, "Beast Morphers isn't bad, Power Rangers has always been bad!"

Aside from Green, it's the only defense that people consistently make, despite all the insistence otherwise.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I really don't get what was wrong with that line.
Of course you don't.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I legitimately don't see how it's not being written with respect for its audience with care and effort for the older audience.
In spite of the examples were myself and others have brought up our grievances with the quality of the dialogue, the quality of the overall writing and adaptation, the quality of the acting, the quality of the music, and so on. You can say you like it, but you can't say that you're not aware that people can and do have issues with it.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

All you do is complain about it being for kids or not good enough, but you never define your litmus test for what it should be beyond "better".
I do, every single week. And, much like a badly written kids show, you reset your argument every week in order to defend it, despite having already covered why I feel it's not good enough and what I feel has done better. I'm certainly not going to repeat myself now just because you deem that I've not done it.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

You're going to have to accept that to a lot of people, it is better and it is doing what older series you're praising did in the past.
And, again, I've specifically stated during my criticism that people are welcome to like it. I don't have to do anything in that regard. Maybe you need to accept what people are explaining to you, rather than attempting to twist their words and say that they're not being clear enough.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I swear it sometimes reads like you're trying to get someone to say "Well then just don't watch it if you don't like it" or something.
Say it, then, if that's how you feel.

I don't "watch" it; I've not watched it week by week since I was significantly younger and Mystic Force drove me away. I came back for RPM because it took me by surprise with just how good Power Rangers could actually be, and then I've not watched any of the Saban-Brands seasons for any extended length of time.

The praise and undue pedestal placement that this season has received is what made me, admittedly mordbidly, curious to see the big deal. I don't see the big deal and eight episodes in I'm inclined to say, with plenty of reference and examples, that it ISN'T a big deal.

Going forward, having reached that conclusion, I likely won't watch it. To me, that's a shame because I've said for the longest time that Power Rangers, the TV show, can be so much more than it is.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 12:23 AM #128
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Xenotome wrote: View Post

It's problems are not anything you can't find in a season prior to the Neo-Saban era.
And if those things didn't get a free pass then, I'm struggling to see why I should be giving them a free pass now.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 12:47 AM #129
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AkaGreen wrote: View Post

I completely understand disliking them. That's a fair complaint. Again, I hope we take a step back from comedy duos after next year. But at least this time their screentime is reduced. It's getting better, even if it's not exactly where we want it to be yet.
But we've had comedy duos that work. Like I said before, Ben and Betty would have been so much better if they had based them on Kat and Boom. I know Kat wasn't strictly a comedy character, but she did like to mess with Boom and they could lean into that more.

If Ben and Betty were the investors of the ranger tech (whose brains were slightly scrambled by the morphin grid to explain their wackiness), then they'd have more going for them then just "ha! ha! bumbling people are funny. Not.".

Peter wrote: View Post

And if those things didn't get a free pass then, I'm struggling to see why I should be giving them a free pass now.
100% this. If an earlier season did something wrong, then that makes even worse if a later season repeats it. This show has 25 years of examples to draw on of what works and what doesn't work.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Sometimes I wish I didn't know anything about the Sentai going in and wasn't always looking for foreshadowing or hinting at things the way BM built up Nate as Gold. I do love looking for those things, but getting an actual twist would be nice.
Sentai was part of the reason I didn't suspect Nate, as GoBusters had side tech characters who didn't do anything, so I assumed Nate was one of them.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 12:54 AM #130
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big smile wrote: View Post

But we've had comedy duos that work. Like I said before, Ben and Betty would have been so much better if they had based them on Kat and Boom. I know Kat wasn't strictly a comedy character, but she did like to mess with Boom and they could lean into that more.
I agree. That would work even better since they're siblings.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 03:09 AM #131
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Decent episode.

Congrats to Linkara, they finally created a ranger that acts just like him.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 03:42 AM #132
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I wonder if the next episode we going to see Evox use the Silver Ranger and battle the rangers, because Scrozzle for sore is going to build the Messiah Cell suit for Evox
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Old April 30th, 2019, 08:47 AM #133
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Peter wrote: View Post

You could try and give me a dozen reasons why you think the Earth is flat, but I'm not going to listen to any of those, either. What I find particularly galling about that comment is that you are the very first person to remind us how the show is designed for kids and that we, the evil horrible adult fans, are not the primary audience. But suddenly, when it suits you to be disagreeable, "The majority of this show is for the adults"?
The difference is, the earth is factually round. You're arguing about opinions here instead, preferences and biases, not facts. Just your opinion on the writing quality. You're also taking my words either in a personal attack of some kind or just bluntly misunderstanding them to be attacks about adult fans. When I am mad at adult fans, I make it very clear why I am picking them out, this is not one of those times. But even then I will never call older fans evil/horrible, that's just a bizarre spin you've chosen to go with that only makes you sound more negative than you normally are.

It's not that the show is written specifically for adults, you need to stop taking one part of what I say and ignoring the explanation just so you can complain about it or me. It's that it's taking it's writing more seriously and competently, in the ways older shows did, which I am counting as written for an older audience without alienating the target audience.

It is a show for kids, written so the older audience can enjoy it too. Definitely more so than previous seasons have done. That was my point. Not that older fans are evil, not that they don't matter, not that kids will watch anything, or whatever else you want to spin my words as next. If you don't agree that's fine, I won't convince you nor will anyone, it's a matter of opinion in that case. I think the show is being handled more like a classic series, honestly more like a Disney era writing really, but I'm not going to fault you for disagreeing or spin your words to try and discredit your opinion just for being different.

Lordoftherangers wrote: View Post

And don't say "Oh those are secretly adult shows disguised as shows for kids." If it's on a kids network or block then as far as I'm concerned it's for kids.
Well, that's the problem then. Your definition does not match what other people use to define a kids show. Including the creators of those shows you always list. You always go to adult shows open for kids, when PR has always been a kids show open for adults. It's one of the weird ways Nick works as a network for PR, it's live action shows have always sort of had that same approach for differing age groups.

JaimeZeo wrote: View Post

Of course you don't.
Things like this are why you read as insulting and give off a bad attitude that makes people not want to talk to you.

Why don't you explain why it's a bad line, or at the very least why you don't like it and what you would replace it with?

In spite of the examples were myself and others have brought up our grievances with the quality of the dialogue, the quality of the overall writing and adaptation, the quality of the acting, the quality of the music, and so on. You can say you like it, but you can't say that you're not aware that people can and do have issues with it.
I will never deny people have issues with it. But not liking it doesn't equal not respecting the audience. Nor is music or acting the writing's fault. What would you describe as writing with respect to the audience, both old and new, then?

I do, every single week. And, much like a badly written kids show, you reset your argument every week in order to defend it, despite having already covered why I feel it's not good enough and what I feel has done better. I'm certainly not going to repeat myself now just because you deem that I've not done it.
I get your reasoning for why you personally dislike things, you've explained your logic very well, I just don't see what your answer would be. Especially when from my point of view the show is already working at being better and I enjoy it regardless of where on the better line it falls just because I enjoy what it is right now.

That's generally where I get thrown by your complaints, your reasoning is sound from your perspective. I just see the things it is now as already improvements on the show and enjoyable now. So if I am resetting, it kind of feels like you reset to complain about the same thing too, with no direction given for what or how you'd like to see it improve.

And, again, I've specifically stated during my criticism that people are welcome to like it. I don't have to do anything in that regard. Maybe you need to accept what people are explaining to you, rather than attempting to twist their words and say that they're not being clear enough.
You do say it, when confronted about giving off that vibe. But you also tend to reset and give off that vibe everytime there is something new to discuss and people are positive about things you're negative about. If you have to keep saying "people are welcome to like it", that means you're still coming off like you're telling them the opposite.

Say it, then, if that's how you feel.

I don't "watch" it; I've not watched it week by week since I was significantly younger and Mystic Force drove me away. I came back for RPM because it took me by surprise with just how good Power Rangers could actually be, and then I've not watched any of the Saban-Brands seasons for any extended length of time.
It's a stupid thing to say and the antithesis of discussion here though. Especially for an episode by episode talk. If you aren't watching it, why are you even complaining about it though? That's where this gets confusing. You don't watch, you don't like it, but you come into the episode discussions to complain about things you don't like about what you don't watch and then don't understand why people like what they do.

That's a very confusing set up for any discussion.

Going forward, having reached that conclusion, I likely won't watch it. To me, that's a shame because I've said for the longest time that Power Rangers, the TV show, can be so much more than it is.
You say that with such a huge amount of time, a friggin' decade's worth of space, in between watching regularly. There feels like a missed context there. Like you're talking about just the basic concept or idea of PR, not the show itself when you say that. Like that misses out on why it's been the way it is for so long and why that works for it, but then you also have disregarded that people use that missing time to explain and enjoy how it is becoming more in the first place. It's more like taking it as the baby steps along the way, instead of jumping in every few years when things have actually moved forward.

It's just such an unusual approach that I don't really see what you want out of the show or an episode break down discussion other than to say "i don't like it, it could be better" and leave.

Peter wrote: View Post

And if those things didn't get a free pass then, I'm struggling to see why I should be giving them a free pass now.
No one is saying it should be a free pass, but to hold those things against the current season as if they are the only ones guilty of them seems like a bad approach. At the very least acknowledge them as a franchise long issue.

big smile wrote: View Post

Sentai was part of the reason I didn't suspect Nate, as GoBusters had side tech characters who didn't do anything, so I assumed Nate was one of them.
At first I didn't suspect him either, but once he mentioned wanting a brother is just seemed so bluntly set up. Then the helmet appeared. It kind of worked for me though because knowing it was coming made finally getting to it a little more enjoyable.

Still would have been nice not to spoil it ahead of time though, Hasbro.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 11:48 AM #134
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I just wish they'd set up the appearance of the new guy properly, maybe have Nate using a sentient AI in his PDA to help him with all of his tech work, then when the time comes, use that AI as the brain of the Silver Ranger. I mean it goes with the whole Iron Man thing they were doing.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 11:53 AM #135
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

It is a show for kids, written so the older audience can enjoy it too. Definitely more so than previous seasons have done. That was my point.
You originally said it was written moreso for the adult audience, though, which is the part people naturally took objection with.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I'm not going to fault you for disagreeing or spin your words to try and discredit your opinion just for being different.
Which is an interesting thing to say, when it's followed immediately by:

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Things like this are why you read as insulting and give off a bad attitude that makes people not want to talk to you.
Was what I said playful? Yup. Was it insulting? Only if you want to take it that way. If you don't want to talk to me, then don't; the fact is that people DO respond to me, and most of the time its civil and with some degree of common ground; again, see my back and forths with Green.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Why don't you explain why it's a bad line, or at the very least why you don't like it and what you would replace it with?
I said it was a juvenile line, specifically, which it is. It's written solely for kids who need everything explained to them as clearly and uncreatively as possible. Is that bad for a kids show? No, not necessarily.

Is it bad as an adult? Yeah. It's horrendous. What would I replace it with? I'd have Zoey not say a word and fight; she's just turned into a Power Ranger out of nowhere and she's fighting for her life. Let Nate explain all that shit either during the fight as an aside TO the audience, or after the fight to the Rangers, as exposition.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I will never deny people have issues with it. But not liking it doesn't equal not respecting the audience. Nor is music or acting the writing's fault. What would you describe as writing with respect to the audience, both old and new, then?
But I'm not necessarily singling out the writing; there's a whole bunch of elements which aren't great, which come together to form a melting pot of mediocrity that Power Rangers is generally known for outside of the fanbase.

Side note: that's not insulting or offensive, unless you choose to take it as such. You yourself said to Peter that you feel like he's taking YOUR words as a personal attack, so don't take mine as such.

Anyway, it respects the audience if the audience is ENTIRELY six year old children, as is the conversation. This board is not composed entirely of six year old children, nor are various aspects of the Power Rangers branding, and so, to expect adult fans to enjoy a show that's so juvenile and so set in its ways, yes, that's not exactly respecting that. A season that did? RPM. Done.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

I get your reasoning for why you personally dislike things, you've explained your logic very well, I just don't see what your answer would be. Especially when from my point of view the show is already working at being better and I enjoy it regardless of where on the better line it falls just because I enjoy what it is right now.

That's generally where I get thrown by your complaints, your reasoning is sound from your perspective. I just see the things it is now as already improvements on the show and enjoyable now. So if I am resetting, it kind of feels like you reset to complain about the same thing too, with no direction given for what or how you'd like to see it improve.
I'm not resetting at all, I'm responding to the exact same arguments and defenses; of course my answers are going to be the same.

Once again, how would I like to see it improve? Replace the entire creative staff. Chip Lynn isn't capable of anything beyond average when left to his own devices, and I've explained why multiple times. Bring in fresh blood, be it fans who grew up on the franchise or relatively experienced writers looking to add their own spin on things.

RPM. The 2017 movie. Solid examples of why I feel that's the right move.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

You do say it, when confronted about giving off that vibe. But you also tend to reset and give off that vibe everytime there is something new to discuss and people are positive about things you're negative about. If you have to keep saying "people are welcome to like it", that means you're still coming off like you're telling them the opposite.
Once again, no. I'm responding to people telling me what I'm saying, and I feel compelled, yet again, to clarify my stance. You say earlier about not twisting Peter's words, and yet you have done repeatedly with mine, through intent or otherwise. Simply by saying "Well I know you SAID this, but it SOUNDS like you mean this...." is taking my words and trying to make them into something else. You do it again now:

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

It's a stupid thing to say and the antithesis of discussion here though. Especially for an episode by episode talk. If you aren't watching it, why are you even complaining about it though? That's where this gets confusing. You don't watch, you don't like it, but you come into the episode discussions to complain about things you don't like about what you don't watch and then don't understand why people like what they do.

That's a very confusing set up for any discussion.
You quoted a portion, and not the full comment, in which I stated that I don't watch it in the sense I make a point every week to watch it every year since SPD, but that I HAVE been watching Beast Morphers out of curiousity based on the wild hyperbole and gushing praise I've seen on these here internets.

So I clearly HAVE watched it, and therefore know what my issues are with it, and continue to struggle to identify what it is that people are so enthused about, because those reasons simply aren't there in the way a lot of people - not all - have described.

Titanium321 wrote: View Post

You say that with such a huge amount of time, a friggin' decade's worth of space, in between watching regularly. There feels like a missed context there. Like you're talking about just the basic concept or idea of PR, not the show itself when you say that. Like that misses out on why it's been the way it is for so long and why that works for it, but then you also have disregarded that people use that missing time to explain and enjoy how it is becoming more in the first place. It's more like taking it as the baby steps along the way, instead of jumping in every few years when things have actually moved forward.

It's just such an unusual approach that I don't really see what you want out of the show or an episode break down discussion other than to say "i don't like it, it could be better" and leave.
Except I have clearly stated I watched RPM, because particularly the first half was representative of what Power Rangers CAN be, and has not come close to since outside of the movie, which is quite possibly the best produced piece of media with the Power Rangers name attached to it.

No, that doesn't mean I think the TV show should be at the level of a Hollywood movie, before you call me on that. It could quite easily be written as such, though. And yet, it's not. C'est la vie.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 12:47 PM #136
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JaimeZeo wrote: View Post

You say earlier about not twisting Peter's words, and yet you have done repeatedly with mine, through intent or otherwise. Simply by saying "Well I know you SAID this, but it SOUNDS like you mean this...." is taking my words and trying to make them into something else.
But it really isn't. Twisting your words would involve making it out to say one single thing without considering a different interpretation. The fact that they recognize what you said and what you meant shows that it isn't twisting, it's interpretation of what you said to them. You even brought up interpretation here:

JaimeZeo wrote: View Post

Side note: that's not insulting or offensive, unless you choose to take it as such. You yourself said to Peter that you feel like he's taking YOUR words as a personal attack, so don't take mine as such.
Saying you SOUNDED like you said something vs. SAYING something doesn't match up because that is interpretation vs. twisting of words, not interpretation=twisting.

Now I'm probably going to get your thing of "You only took a portion of my quote to change the context" and stuff like that. Which, it's not changing context, it's just that that's the part I wanted to respond to.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 12:59 PM #137
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The way Iíve seen it, Beast Morphers is guilty of all of the same sins the Neo Saban era was guilty of. Is it to a lesser extent? In most cases, yes. Does that excuse them? Not at all.

The biggest problem I have - which Iíve had for several years now - isnít that that show is made for kids or not made for adults; itís that the show is seemingly made for an audience that simply doesnít exist. Saban pushed for the show to be as dumbed down as possible. The show assumed the children watching were practically brain-dead, unable to process the colors flashing in front of their faces. Nothing the least bit mature was allowed. Every action on screen had to be repeated in dialogue. No creativity necessary. We are seeing all of these same issues in Beast Morphers. Yes, ďitís better than Ninja SteelĒ but Iím not going to congratulate the show for stumbling over the lowest possible bar for quality. This last episode was good. I will be the first to admit when the show is good. The premier was good. The rest in between? No, it was not good. It was the same laziness weíve seen for years. Less lazy isnít the opposite of lazy. Two good episodes out of eight does not a ďgame changerĒ make.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 02:16 PM #138
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It's just, like... most people here can agree the show is an improvement over Ninja Steel and that there's a concerted effort by the runners to make it better, but it's still a far-cry from older seasons. Like yeah, those were a long time ago and to expect that quality right away is unrealistic, but how else will the shows improve if we don't hold them to a higher standard? Saban may not have given a shit, but Hasbro has a history of being much more receptive.

Is BM better than what we've been getting? Yeah. But it can still do much, much better, too.

It's just... man. I see a good show in Beast Morphers. I get what Judd's aiming for. But every time they line up the shot and fire, they keep missing the mark. It bums me out.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 02:53 PM #139
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Cuchulainn wrote: View Post

It's just, like... most people here can agree the show is an improvement over Ninja Steel and that there's a concerted effort by the runners to make it better, but it's still a far-cry from older seasons. Like yeah, those were a long time ago and to expect that quality right away is unrealistic, but how else will the shows improve if we don't hold them to a higher standard? Saban may not have given a shit, but Hasbro has a history of being much more receptive.

Is BM better than what we've been getting? Yeah. But it can still do much, much better, too.

It's just... man. I see a good show in Beast Morphers. I get what Judd's aiming for. But every time they line up the shot and fire, they keep missing the mark. It bums me out.
Iíve been saying all along that thereís nothing wrong with holding the show to its own standards. ďItís a kids show; this is just how kids shows are now...Ē is a very lame, lazy excuse. The show can be and has been better. Thereís no logistical reason for it to not be. It doesnít cost more to have better writing. This lack of quality is a choice being made.
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Old April 30th, 2019, 03:22 PM #140
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Trey-El wrote: View Post

But it really isn't. Twisting your words would involve making it out to say one single thing without considering a different interpretation. The fact that they recognize what you said and what you meant shows that it isn't twisting, it's interpretation of what you said to them.
Except I'm expressly stating that I mean what I say, and I'm clarifying as such so there is no misinterpretation. So, in the given context of this discussion, if I say that I accept that people are inclined to like what they like, then I mean that, and it's not open to interpretation, and certainly not open to Titanium (or whomever, but it's specifically one person in this example) telling me that "Okay, but it sounds like..." That's just straight up ignorance of intention, and an attempt to make my words mean something else.

For future reference, though, let's lay it all out plain as day!

Now we've reached the hiatus, I consider Beast Morphers to be both a bog-standard Power Rangers season, as well as a standalone TV show in its own right. There's very little in the way of redeeming qualities, and nowhere near the benchmark either past seasons of the franchise or other shows aimed at a similar audience have achieved, regardless of whether it's better than [insert awful season that, ironically, people have previously defended here]. Other people can feel however they want about it, it's their prerogative, but I can't see any of this "game changing" quality that's been put out there, nor should I pretend to.

There: no misinterpreting that. I hope.
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