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Old September 23rd, 2017, 10:43 PM   #3421
sylarking
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Hibiki has foot soldiers?
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 10:47 PM   #3422
Allio
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yeah, didn't like someone get like a major hate boner for Gaim and so we didn't get anything from them past the series?
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 11:02 PM   #3423
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yeah, didn't like someone get like a major hate boner for Gaim and so we didn't get anything from them past the series?
You mean one of the other sub groups?

Well, in terms of weirdness, I know that shortly after the show finished Magenta from Aesir Subs kinda vanished from the internet and no one has heard from him since. Also hence why MFC's subs for Decade have stalled completely.
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 11:28 PM   #3424
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Hibiki has foot soldiers?
No but they fit the bill. The parents of the monsters who die almost every episode to protect the monsters. That is about as foot soldiery as you get.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 12:44 AM   #3425
sylarking
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No but they fit the bill. The parents of the monsters who die almost every episode to protect the monsters. That is about as foot soldiery as you get.
I considered them as monsters not foot solderes.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 08:51 PM   #3426
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You know I just thought of something. Could Gackt's Riderman in "destroy all riders" have possibly been the Riderman from The First/Next universe?
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Old September 24th, 2017, 10:03 PM   #3427
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Right, what's next on Gaim stuff I need to finish...

Gaim Gaiden

Oh yeah, this shit.

Episode: Zangetsu

So we get a fuller look at a different side to Takatora.

There was always the hint of him having a softer, kinder side to him that had been lost since the events of the TV series. Which is brought out here when an old friend comes back from the past...in the form of his former maid, Touko. And it seems that Takatora is fond of her.

...so naturally it turns out that long before Helheim was a thing, Yggdrasil also dabbled in the practice of making child super soldiers. And Touko was one of them...and she's out for revenge on the Kureshima line. Including Takatora. Whoops.

Either way, while Takatora is sad at the outcome of things, dude still knows what must be done. Even if it means ending Touko's suffering by killing her himself...

(well despite how later Ryouma ended up having to finish her off anyways, but w.e.)

Which admittedly, considering the franchise as a whole, is pretty par for the course. Like seriously, considering all the many, MANY shady corporations that have popped up over the years, it'd be weird if they didn't do anything of the sort.

Episode: Baron

Whose initial premise...is something far more sillier then I would have expected.

A guy that looks exactly like Kaito, but is instead the son of a wealthy businessman...and decides that he wants to be Kaito. To the point of finding him, knocking him out, and swapping clothes. And the notKaito making a general fool of himself with his silly dancing, and making some cake at Charmant.

Didn't see that coming.

Thankfully the rest of Episode Baron takes itself a bit more seriously...when we uncover a conspiracy that the businessman is not only cutting deals with Yggdrasil, but also decides to kill his own son!

...wait...

So naturally Kaito has to step in and whip notKaito into shape. That he shouldn't try to run from his problems, and that he needs to fight for what's right and to have good friends to help him out like how Kaito has in Zack and Peko.

The interesting that the two stories relate to each other...is the protagonists' relationships with their father. In Takatora's case, despite acknowledging how cold his father can be, and the terrible things he's done, to always remember noblisse oblige...or that, despite his station in life, he has an even greater responsibility to protect others. For Kaito, it's that his father being a previously proud man, fell by his own weakness and how he vowed to never fall to weakness like he did.

So yeah, pretty good.

Off to Duke/Knuckle.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 10:23 PM   #3428
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I know alot of people didn't like the Gaim Gaiden, but I found they were good. At least better than the WinterxWizard/Summer films. Though it seemed like with DukexKnuckle it seemed like they were trying to set some kind of plot that would have been continued if there was a next film (which I suppose Toei/Bandai just said "Fuck it, lets do this with Drive's best boy")

Because if memory serves correctly, voting was still going on after Duke/Nuckle came out
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Old September 24th, 2017, 10:37 PM   #3429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allio View Post
I know alot of people didn't like the Gaim Gaiden, but I found they were good. At least better than the WinterxWizard/Summer films. Though it seemed like with DukexKnuckle it seemed like they were trying to set some kind of plot that would have been continued if there was a next film (which I suppose Toei/Bandai just said "Fuck it, lets do this with Drive's best boy")

Because if memory serves correctly, voting was still going on after Duke/Nuckle came out
...I wasn't planning on saying anything until I got to Duke/Knuckle, but yeah: there was no Gaim Gaiden 3.

And yeah, they were setting up stuff in Duke/Knuckle about this "Black Bodhi" cult, one that, after seemingly Ryouma and Takatora took care of them near the beginning of the show (or before?), but that they popped back up again about a year after the ending of the show.

I suspect if they did a Gaim Gaiden that featured a, say, Episode Ryugen, it would have dealt with Micchi needing to deal with them on his own since he's one of the last Riders still active. And you know, probably some pathos left on Micchi doing what he can to atone for all his shit he did throughout the show and the pressure of carrying on Kouta's will.

But of course, a Gaim Gaiden 3 never happened and we haven't seen that get officially resolved. The fact that they had a survey with Duke/Knuckle suggests that they were at least interested in making another one...but nothing came of it. Dunno, was it a case of Duke/Knuckle not selling well enough and thus Toei and/or Bandai decided not to move forward with them?

Bit of a shame, I would have loved to see how they would have gone into it. And expand more into the other Riders. I most certainly would have been interested in what could be done with an Episode Marika or even an Episode Bravo or Episode Sigurd.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 11:41 PM   #3430
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Originally Posted by tasti man LH View Post
I most certainly would have been interested in what could be done with an Episode Marika or even an Episode Bravo or Episode Sigurd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo David Frank View Post
Gaiden 3 is half Sid and Yoko's origin stories / half Oren and Jounouchi on the French Riviera vacationing at a bed and breakfast.
What could have been...
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Old September 25th, 2017, 07:33 AM   #3431
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Hibiki is my second favorite series in terms of character. Story it is 3rd. This is of course out of what I've watched so far in my current marathon of riders. Agito, Ryuki, Faiz, Blade and Hibiki. I just really like the characters in Hibiki. As well the humor is just so natural in this and not forced. I find myself even enjoying the fighting even though it is overly fake. I'll have to rank Hibiki better when I have finished the series i know about the writing staff changes. So my opinion might sour post that I don't know though wait and see.
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Old September 25th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #3432
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Definitely would have liked to see a marika episode, her "Mary" complex seems like it would be interesting to delve into.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 12:39 AM   #3433
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Gaim Gaiden 2

Episode: Duke

So our first bit of Gaim media that's vaguely prequel-ish!

In that it takes place during a time when the Genesis Drivers, and therefore the Energy Riders, weren't quite ready yet.

Also we get a deeper look at Ryouma's and Takatora's friendship with each other...specifically witnessing the exact moment Ryouma stopped viewing Takatora as a friend. And instead viewing him as a stepping stone to greater power. It's definitely kind of sad knowing that Ryouma lost any empathy he could have had at such an early point in time. And that any friendships that he had that were genuine from Takatora, he ended up rejecting them on his own.

Naturally the most intriguing part was the glimpses into the past of how our soon-to-be-Energy Riders first met each other. A younger Takatora finding a younger Ryouma and recruiting him directly, Ryouma catching Yoko in the act of some corporate espionage...and employing her on the spot, and a young Sid (seriously, it screws me up a lot seeing the guy so clean-shaven) as a young punk and Ryouma deciding to NOT turn him into the police.

And it ends on Ryouma's now-Energized form walking alongside Zangetsu-Shin, Sigurd, and Marika...probably heading off to go kill Invess-Hase.

-------------------------------------
Episode: Knuckle

And now the only other piece of Gaim media outside of the Movie Wars that takes place after the ending of the show!

Incidentally: fuck you TV-N for making me look up what the fuck a "marron" is. And god-fucking-dammit for the other sub groups for not wanting to touch Gaim Gaiden 2 for some never-ever explained reason.

So yeah, the meat of the story takes place a year after the events of the finale. The surviving cast seemingly being eager to put the nightmare of Helheim behind them and return to ordinary lives. Which includes Zack: despite being the new leader of Team Baron, he doesn't exactly seem to be interested in restarting up the fight between Beat Riders. So he leaves things to Peko to take care of things while he goes to America to study and try to make it big as a dancer...

...but it all goes to shit when a former member of an old dance crew member, by the name of Shura, comes back, takes over and rebrands the team as Team Neo-Baron, and turns the team into an underground fight club...while profiting on all of it.

Welp. Didn't think things would turn out so utterly bad like that in, but there you go.

So Zack has to come back and clean up the mess, which means becoming Knuckle one last time...

Also for being the final stand-alone Gaim story...this ends on kind of a dark note. That after Zack defeats Shura he collapses from his wounds...and seemingly doesn't wake up. And considering the ending credits scene is of Zack (who by the way, is suddenly back in his Team Baron uniform) talking with a hallucination of Kaito pondering on if he successfully managed to live up to his legacy. With the two of them deciding to dance together...and the last shot of it is Zack dancing alone.

So...there's a very good chance that Zack died as a result of his fight. Dayum.

-------------------------------------
As for how the two specials are connected...well this is a bit easier: these two specials are all about legacy.

For Ryouma, it's the legacy of his predecessor Kugai...and how he completely rejects it. To him, Kugai was a failure and an embarrassment. That while he also wanted to use the fruits of Helheim (metaphorical and literal) to obtain ultimate power, Kugai did it in such a sloppy way and with not enough precise ambition. And how he vows to not make the same mistakes as he did and to become even more powerful then he did. Even if it means abandoning his humanity. Essentially, he'll make his own legacy by his oen hands.

For Zack, it's all about Kaito's legacy. Not just on what Kaito meant to him, but also how others view his legacy and philosophy. Especially, in this case, how those that would pervert and corrupt Kaito's legacy to suit their own needs. In the case of Shura, it would be acquiring power by any means necessary. Even if that means doing it by cheating and cowardly means...which as we all know, was a bit no-no for Kaito. Zack knew that this is not what Kaito would have wanted, and thus found he had to act.

So yeah, again, Gaiden 2 is also overall a very solid watch. I'd personally say moreso then the first Gaiden, since this one spends time exploring and developing characters that didn't get a whole lot of development in the show.

...which makes me even sadder we didn't get a Gaim Gaiden 3...

I WANT MAH EPISODE RYUGEN AND MARIKA DAMMIT!!!

-------------------------
*phew*

Finally done with all the Gaim movies and spin-offs. No idea why I put them off for so long, especially since they were pretty solid all around.

Next would be the Movie Wars between Gaim and Drive...and Drive's movies and spin-offs.

Joooooyyy...
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Old September 26th, 2017, 12:55 AM   #3434
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I know it's not what they mean, but the tagline for the upcoming film being "The shocking final chapter to Heisei!" sounds like Toei is banking on the Emperor dying within the next year.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 01:22 AM   #3435
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Originally Posted by johnboy3434 View Post
I know it's not what they mean, but the tagline for the upcoming film being "The shocking final chapter to Heisei!" sounds like Toei is banking on the Emperor dying within the next year.
...I mean. The actual Heisei era is going to end anyways and going to have a new era created moving forward. Wouldn't matter too much either way if the Emperor died or not.

------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah since it was mentioned before but it seems like no one has done it since they were added to the first post...here's the Gaim Gaidens and Drive's movies and spin offs and their positioning in their respective shows in relation to chronological release and continuity. To be added to the first post of this thread:

Quote:
Gaim

-Gaim Gaiden 1
  • Zangetsu
    Release: Post-series
    Continuity: between episodes 20 and 21

  • Baron
    Release: Post-series
    Continuity: between episodes 20 and 21

-Gaim Gaiden 2
  • Duke
    Release: Post-series
    Continuity: Before The Fateful Sengoku Movie Battle

  • Knuckle
    Release: Post-series
    Continuity: After Movie War Full Throttle
(which means yes, Episode Zangetsu and Episode Baron takes place roughly around the same time)

Quote:
Drive

-Movie War Full Throttle
Theatrical Release: between episodes 9 and 10
Continuity: between episodes 9 and 10

-Super Hero Taisen GP: Kamen Rider 3
Theatrical Release: between episode 22/Ninninger Team-up and episode 23
Continuity: out of continuity

-Surprise Future
Theatrical Release: between episode 40 and 41
Continuity: between episode 40 and 41/Drive Saga Chaser

-Drive Saga
  • Chaser
    Release: post-series
    Continuity: between episode 40/Surprise Future and 41

  • Heart
    Release: post-series
    Continuity: post series/after Super Movie War Genesis

  • Mach
    Release: post-series
    Continuity: post series/after Super Movie War Genesis
Make any corrections or formatting issues as you see fit.

Last edited by tasti man LH; September 26th, 2017 at 01:33 AM.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 04:06 AM   #3436
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You forgot Kamen Rider 4, it takes place right after the movie.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #3437
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Hit the episode in which Hibiki gets a new theme...... KILL ME NOW I liked the old theme so much better.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 10:38 AM   #3438
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Hit the episode in which Hibiki gets a new theme...... KILL ME NOW I liked the old theme so much better.
Have fun with that. I'll never not be upset at the direction Hibiki took.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #3439
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I know it's not what they mean, but the tagline for the upcoming film being "The shocking final chapter to Heisei!" sounds like Toei is banking on the Emperor dying within the next year.
Emperor is stepping down.. So it is the end of the Heisei era in Japan. Next emperor is going to be crowned.
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Old September 27th, 2017, 12:17 AM   #3440
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On to Drive's movies...goody.

Move War Full Throttle

Side Gaim

So the main threat on Gaim's side is...the Rider version of the Borg. Where they invade Kouta's and Mai's planet, move to Earth (and thus Zawame City)...and seemingly kills Kouta along the way. In the first 5 minutes.

Uhm. Huh?

Yeah, for most of Side Gaim, there's very little Gaim. In fact most of this part of the movie is figuring out how to revive Kouta. Meaning it centers on Micchi and Takatora (the latter now having a Driver back so he can be Zangetsu) as he tries to deal with the notBorg. And how we're left in the awkward situation of how Zack, Oren, and Jonouchi are useless, due to not having their Drivers anymore...(which throws a wrench into Gaiden 2 Knuckle and makes one wonder why the hell Micchi didn't hand a Driver like that to the three now, but w.e.) Here we DO get some pathos of Micchi throwing himself headfirst into things, with his responsibility of being one of the few Armored Riders left and to atone for all his shit in the show.

And considering how, y'know, there was no Gaim Gaiden for Micchi, I'll take what I can get.

...too bad most of it is very short and abbreviated because of the small run-time for Side Gaim.

And by the time Kouta is brought back...it's for a brief fight with notBorg and then being forced to fuck off to get to Drive's segment...

-----------------------------
Side Drive

Ok, I know that the literary figure Arsène Lupin is what they were referencing here with Kamen Rider Lupin...but considering this is a Japanese production and the Japanese audience would have been more familiar with Lupin III...couldn't they have just have it be Lupin III? Would have been made more interesting.

Honestly, not a whole lot to say about this section since it's just...an episode of Drive but with a slightly higher budget.

Which includes all the really bad parts of Drive like the unfunny slapstick...or the joke of a "mystery" part of the show. And the revelation of Krim having a Roidmude body that he was originally going to inhabit until the whole thing with the Belt...is going to inevitably be meaningless anyways when we return to the regular show, so who cares?

Oh and there's a subplot that involves Mr Belt getting destroyed...I'll get back to that when I get to the other Drive movies.

...and I'm also shocked to hear that apparently, there was a spin-off special that centers around Lupin...which fucking blows my mind that that even exists.

-------------------------------------
Side Full Throttle

And when our two heroes finally meet their interaction...is way too brief.

There's some exchanges between the two, particularly at Shinnosuke's shock at Kouta's nonchalant "so yeah I guess I am a space god" and Kouta's giddy excitement at FLYING CAR IN SPACE, which also serves as a reminder of how, despite his status as an ascended god, he's still a kid at heart...but that was it. Otherwise this section was underwhelming. Just all fighting and not enough characters with cross over interaction. And continuing to remind me of how bad Japan's CGI industry is compared to everywhere else.

Although I got a kick out of the inherent silliness of Drive Arms and Type Fruit at least.

-------------------------------------------
So overall...while it's not the worst Movie War I've seen...it's pretty bad.

Gaim's section is especially disappointing, since the Past Rider section is usually meant to serve as an epilogue for the show and for the cast to get back together for one last ride. Gaim's section...brings in a villain that has the barest of connection to Gaim's story, completely dominates it and pushes any of the epilogue sections off to the side. And making it worse by having the title character not be around for most of it. It's bullshit.

The Current Rider part I admit has always been just "higher budget episode of the show"...but that doesn't mean it can't still be a *GOOD* higher-budget episode of the show. Double's section back in Movie War 2010 served as critical backstory to the show, OOO's section in Core was a weird but fun little side story with Nobunaga, and Fourze's section was of Gen finding one true love and made for a legitimately cute and endearing love story.

And the team-up itself is just underwhelming overall. Just a lot of CGI-throw up action set piece and nothing else to ground things.

Ultimatum is still the worst Movie War for me since that has the crime of pushing the Riders themselves out of the spotlight and instead giving them to Ishinomori creation-reboots that no one came to see in a KAMEN RIDER movie (the depiction of the Akumaizer-3 STILL pisses me off).

Well...it might not matter after this. Since from what I understand...this is the final Movie War that uses this structure. That with Super Movie War Genesis and afterwards, they're more like normal team ups. None of this Past Rider Story/Current Rider Story/ format past this movie. So, at least I have that to look forward to when I do get to Genesis.

First I gotta get through all these damn Drive movies. Next is...Superhero Taisen GP.

Welp. Time for yet-another hot mess of a movie...

Last edited by tasti man LH; September 27th, 2017 at 12:32 AM.
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