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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:44 AM #281
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timegold wrote: View Post

Once again, the Wizard special is a crossover. Nowhere in Wizard, except for that and the movie crossovers, did the issue of Kamen Riders of other series ever arise. In a standard Wizard episode, he's not impacted at all by the existence of Riders other than Beast, Mage, or the White Wizard.

Other instances of shows referencing other shows tend to be equivalent to Easter Eggs, possibly as subtle advertisements. Foundation X may have been researching Core Medals, but during the series proper OOO never made use of Foundation X - it was only an issue in the Movie Wars. Fourze may have used Foundation X, but it already was an anniversary series making references to past Kamen Riders anyways (and even then it had little impact on the show as a whole).

It's been stated before, and it's worth stating again: as a general rule, continuity between shows is never a major issue, and it becomes important only for crossovers. Even then, continuity is often played rather loosely.
and as me and others on here have said it might not be a major point all the time, but that doesn't mean it's not there. there are moment's when you see this is a connected world, how Double and Fourze get their names as Riders in Show, cameos like the Kamen Rider club in OOOs ending and Haruto in Fourze in the ending credits, and episode referencing/flashbacks to the team ups.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:50 AM #282
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powerpackers90 wrote: View Post

and as me and others on here have said it might not be a major point all the time, but that doesn't mean it's not there. there are moment's when you see this is a connected world, how Double and Fourze get their names as Riders in Show, cameos like the Kamen Rider club in OOOs ending and Haruto in Fourze in the ending credits, and episode referencing/flashbacks to the team ups.
You sure have a knack for missing the forest for the trees, and ignoring the core of other people's arguments just to contradict one point that was made by using unreasonable extrapolations.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 11:10 AM #283
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then explain to me what i was "ignoring", cause i'm pretty sure what are saying saying that just cause the crossover have continuity that doesn't the series do, and they are there own own stand alone series. and just cause one season has continuity the next doesn't have to. i get that. all i'm saying i believe it one continuity, there proof for that so i'm going to keep keep think that way, and treat them as that. it doesn't matter to me of TOEI doesn't care about it.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 12:45 PM #284
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You're ignoring the fact that shows like Kiva were written to be standalone, yet you argue that it was meant to be in the same narrative as something like Black when there is no evidence in either of those shows that they're supposed to be that way, and the only offer of proof you have is that recent shows from W onwards appear to have a loose sense of continuity. It's apples and oranges - the writers intend different things for different shows.

Otherwise, you might as well say that since the Space Sheriff series crossed over with Kamen Rider and Super Sentai, who referenced Spider-Man in JAKQ vs Goranger, who is now part of the Marvel Universe, that it's all supposed to be one big continuity and that Iron Man is a Metal Hero.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:41 PM #285
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timegold wrote: View Post

You're ignoring the fact that shows like Kiva were written to be standalone, yet you argue that it was meant to be in the same narrative as something like Black when there is no evidence in either of those shows that they're supposed to be that way, and the only offer of proof you have is that recent shows from W onwards appear to have a loose sense of continuity. It's apples and oranges - the writers intend different things for different shows.
Dude I get that they were, your putting words in my mouth. i said in my first few post i see those shows as there own worlds, but (in my opinion) similar to DC Comic's Crisis story line decade created a combined world that is W on up with version of the past Rider that stories happened there.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:55 PM #286
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I saw the Gaim thread; I didn't put any words into your mouth, nor do I need to.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 02:08 PM #287
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timegold wrote: View Post

I saw the Gaim thread; I didn't put any words into your mouth, nor do I need to.
then tell me how do you get "that it was always meant to be in the same narrative" out of "i see those shows as there own worlds, but (in my opinion) similar to DC Comic's Crisis story line decade created a combined world that is W on up with version of the past Riders that stories happened there."

and the Gaim forum, you mean the joke i made about Japan shouldn't trust corporations after almost every one of them turned out to be evil? cause it's a joke just like how Godzilla fans make joke about the armies never figuring out that tanks can not kill Godzilla even thou alot of their movies are their own worlds.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 02:16 PM #288
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Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said it was that comment, but rather these:

powerpackers90 wrote: View Post

funny you'd think in the Kamen Rider universe they'd relies after Smart Brain, Zect, Development & Pioneer, and Kougami Foundation that big corporation are evil lol
powerpackers90 wrote: View Post

i'd figure they do or did cause Their series Riders do exist in this world in some way.
powerpackers90 wrote: View Post

that's true, but Gaim in the Wizard Special and the 15 Heisei Riders being in This Year Movie war makes me think that everything is somehow connected. Even thou Kabuto is hard the place then cause you'd think an asteroid hitting in the middle of toku in 2000 would of been big new during Kuuga. lol
It seems pretty clear from these comments and more that you're trying to force them all into one universe.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 02:30 PM #289
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Yet right here I explain what I meant

powerpackers90 wrote: View Post

Dude I get that they were, your putting words in my mouth. i said in my first few post i see those shows as there own worlds, but (in my opinion) similar to DC Comic's Crisis story line decade created a combined world that is W on up with versions of the past Riders that stories happened there.
powerpackers90 wrote: View Post

they are still the same story's we saw when they aired, i'm just saying it feels like it now happened or a similar version happened in this W-Gaim world.

they all still can stand on their own and you don't need to see the years that came before to get these stories. i was just joking about Japan being trusting of these different corporations that end up screwing them over lol
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i think it's Decade was Kamen Riders version of a DC Comics' Crisis combining all the worlds into one world
what so wrong with that? cause i'm not just pulling it out of my ass. i explained why i felt this way and the things that to me give my theory credit. you don't have to agree with me about this, cause it's only my opinion of how the Kamen Rider worlds works now. this point of view isn't hurting anyone so why is it a big deal?

plus your posting stuff that were jokes, like Kabuto's asteroid screwing up Kuuga, and Japan trusting evil corporations. hence why i typed "LOL". so yeah......

and this "i'd figure they do or did cause Their series Riders do exist in this world in some way." meaning this "a combined world that is W on up with versions of the past Riders that stories happened there."

Last edited by powerpackers90; November 30th, 2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 03:00 PM #290
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Decade created a combined multiverse. In Decade, not in Gaim. Even W functioned largely independently from anything Decade created, and it wasn't until Fourze did any of the past Rider stuff ever become an issue.

And your jokes would look more like jokes if you didn't try to make serious arguments along the same lines.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 03:19 PM #291
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timegold wrote: View Post

Decade created a combined multiverse. In Decade, not in Gaim. Even W functioned largely independently from anything Decade created, and it wasn't until Fourze did any of the past Rider stuff ever become an issue.

dude you still miss my point. to me it all reads as one world. end of story. i didn't do anything wrong but state my reason for believing so. i never said my opinions are facts or that your's and anyone else views are wrong. i said repeatedly said they are different on there own stories, but to me it NOW somehow takes place in the same world. your not going to change my opinion.

timegold wrote: View Post

And your jokes would look more like jokes if you didn't try to make serious arguments along the same lines.
yeah, cause i said that view them as one world, yet i still made jokes at myself. cause i was not picking a fight with people. just stating my opinions and laughing at some off the oddities of my opinion.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 06:21 PM #292
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I didn't miss your point. I'm refuting it by demonstrating that the events that transpire in the shows don't verify this "one universe" view except in crossovers. I'm not saying it's wrong that you have an opinion, just that that opinion isn't supported by the facts.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 06:33 PM #293
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Kamen Rider W Returns: Kamen Rider Eternal: While opinions of Katsumi Daidoh may be divided post movie, I still say this: Jun Kazu remains the most dull final villain in the franchise whether Dopant, Quark or NEVER.

One thing I have to admire about Riku Sanjo, particularly in regards to W (and also from what I hear about Kyoryuger) is that he really loves filling in the blanks and giving a logical explanation for everything that he does from start to finish. After finishing Shotaro and Philip's tale in series, he used his segment of Movie War Core to further explain Kamen Rider Skull and the history of the GaiaMemories as they started to become the plague of Fuuto. And likewise using one of the "Returns" OVAs, he likewise gives an explanation to Katsumi Daidoh and the NEVER that we never got in series or in KRW Forever, which further explains them and particularly how Daidoh can be interepreted as a hero by somes for what he did even if he ultimately nearly turned all of Fuuto into NEVER like himself. (well regardless of who the final villain was, Fuuto was going to suffer regardless with elder Sonozaki about to turn everyone into Dopant and Kazu wanting to take that to a global scale.)

In many ways, the three potential final villains end up all appearing in this movie even if just in cameo. We get the same story as we got in Forever about how the NEVER project was brought up by Daidoh's mother Maria and that Foundation X chose to fund the GaiaMemories instead. The idea of them being mercenaries was never the intention with Maria obviously wanting to save her son, yet him slowly using it to create a small army made up of the other four who became his Dopant warriors in the movie. (including Eiji...er, Takaoka, not Hino, the cold girl, the iron bar guy and...the nutty fruity Luna Dopant) I like that we get an in-story of him recruiting the girl who eventually became Heat Dopant and that we get short explanations for the other three as well (did not expect Metal being a hippie essentially killed by contractors) Due to Daidoh's own abilities and his "immortal" state, the two saw the NEVER as potential mercenaries due to their abilities to withstand so much turmoil in combat; and it was great just seeing the cameraderie of these five who ultimately are going to be trying to take over Fuuto further enhanced by the Dopant powers.

Unfortunately...I'm really torn about the concept of the movie introducing yet another Foundation X project that is going on behind the scenes: that of the psychic soldiers Quarks. I get that Foundation X would have multiple projects going on simultaneously, but to see generic "psychic soldiers" being thrown in alongside the "monster-making USB drives" and "super-zombies" just really makes me annoyed that they would just keep throwing their money at things they'd hardly need. We get a sympathetic one (played by Mako Shiraishi) upon whom Daidoh wants to use the inspiration of taking down the bizarre psychic city where only the strong survive and whatnot. And another one is played by Yukito Sanjou's actor...in what appears to be him as Jeff Goldbloom for some reason. And obviously there is a whole class thing of "weak vs. strong" where the weak ones die and the strong ones end up living on for further study.

Yet while I really did not like the Quarks in general, I loved the mastermind Doctor Prospect. Played by Junichi Haruta, this role just felt perfect for him in that he felt like "what if Kanpei Kuroda went to the dark...er, light side". I say that because with Haruta as the "man in black" of Sentai, seeing him wearing white and as the white-clad Eyes Dopant really demonstrated him as evil even visually. Further, having seen Goggle V and knowing how Kuroda was the team strategist and scientist with an obsession with shogi, seeing Prospect always trying to stay two moves ahead of Daidoh and his NEVER soldiers and trying to lay out everything perfectly for his Quark project was great to see, even to the point of him creating a barrier that essentially kills any of the psychics the moment they try to cross it as if he doesn't want to take any precautions of the truth of his works emerging. (and to top it off, considering that Haruta was Kuroda in the 199 movie about that time, it just feels amazing he would just turn around and do this OVA where he's essentially "evil Kuroda")

The movie in general was more or less about taking perspective in people and trying to look at them through different eyes and ideas; knowing that evil men can do great things and good men can look to others like monsters. The perspective of Shotaro and Philip regarding Daidoh was that he was the evil man who nearly destroyed Fuuto in order to turn its citizens into NEVER using the X-Blicker and the T2 Gaia Memories. Yet to Mina, Daidoh was the man who tore down an oppresive experiment run by a sadistic scientist using people as guinea pigs and killing the weak to keep improving on the strong. In many respects this is something we see a lot throughout the world: people who look like tyrants to some yet saviors to others; while those who appear as saints who can look to others like much worse than public perception. Obviously Mina's views are likewise from seeing Daidoh under those circumstances of the whole Prospect incident, but we do also see the Daidoh who returns to Fuuto emerge from circumstances. While he abhors the usage of the Quarks, seeing his own love of Fuuto yet the dark means of others to get what they want forces him to evolve into a monster who sees only good in literally turning a city into people like him and allowing his own mother to help him accomplish this.

Likewise, the other thing this movie seems to clear up well is who the most powerful of the three "final villains" were ultimately, due to how hard it was for Shotaro and Philip to defeat Daidoh in the movie compared to the less powerful forms (even if it was still CJX) for Terror and Utopia Dopants. The T1 Eternal was extremely powerful on it's own, particularly once it "became" Daidoh's, but it was so powerful that it shorted out just to defeat Prospect. Thus with the T2 development, it allowed for Daidoh to fully and permanently control its power and thus explained why he didn't strike until these improved GaiaMemory were created. Likewise seeing how the Eternal Memory originally reacted and rebelled against Jun Kazu, it sort of furthers the idea that there are certain "destined GaiaMemory" that match up with the right people to create the ultimate match as we saw quite a bit in KRW Forever with Daidoh, the NEVER, even Shotarou and Queen! And of course there was no contest in seeing that even T1-Memory Eternal was enough to defeat Utopia Dopant...so yeah, even if he didn't last as long or have interest for the elder Sonozaki sister, he was the greatest of threats on a power stage (comparatively, Ryuubee was the psychological final villain being the mastermind of Museum and the whole GaiaMemory scheme; while Kazu essentially was the final villain standing who had the biggest scheme in making everyone in the world become Dopant instead of just everyone in Fuuto due to knowing of it's greater potential)

(Oh and before I forget: I think there even was a logical explanation for why Eiji...Hino, not Takaoka, was able to defeat T2-Luna Dopant: remember that a three Cell Medal "Triple Scanning Charge" with Mejalibur is extremely powerful on it's own due to the Kougami's research in Cell Medal technology being way more advanced than their work with Core Medals, having developed the bikes, Canroids and whatnot even by the start of OOO. Thus even without a "combo", Eiji could use a Triple Scanning Charge to cause immense damage to the point of destroying a T-2 Dopant. Though speaking of Eiji...)
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Old November 30th, 2013, 10:48 PM #294
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Eternal Returns (as I like to call it) really cements Daido as my favorite rider and W as one of top 3 (ahead of OOO but behind Kiva) favorite series as a whole. W having this whole extended universe within itself just feels so right to me, as well as Eternal actually becoming a character instead of "the evil movie rider" that so many other villains are (I'm looking at you, Rey/Arc). Eternal, Kabuki, and Orga really feel like they're integral characters within their series when compared to other movie villain riders (well, Orga is one anyway, but my point still stands).
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Old November 30th, 2013, 10:54 PM #295
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I'm still surprised that they even managed to get two spin-off movies out of Double, since I thought there really wasn't much else to be explored after the series added (outside of maybe the rise of Museum and the invention of the GaiaMemories, maybe).

So bravo for not only be able to pull it off, AND to expand the series mythos were I didn't think they could.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 05:55 PM #296
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i feel stupid i been rewatching Kamen Rider Ichigo for the fanfic i'm writing and i just realized that his visor to see out of was the black stuff below the Bug eyes, and not the bug eyes. i feel stupid
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Old December 1st, 2013, 07:03 PM #297
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tasti man LH wrote: View Post

I'm still surprised that they even managed to get two spin-off movies out of Double, since I thought there really wasn't much else to be explored after the series added (outside of maybe the rise of Museum and the invention of the GaiaMemories, maybe).

So bravo for not only be able to pull it off, AND to expand the series mythos were I didn't think they could.
I find it amazing that three of the five "movies" of W are those devoted to backstory (Begins Night, Message to W, Kamen Rider W Returns: Eternal). This series just had such a rich tapestry to mine with all of it's mysteries.

Kamen Rider OOO Wonderful: So...would it be wrong if I were to just call this movie "Delusional Desires" and pass it off as some weird dream invented by some office lady of Akihabara?

Somehow many of the modern Rider movies seem to try and be a balance between entertainment and moving forwards the story in ways that can't be done in the TV show. OOO did give it a go and some of it worked...but a lot of it was just very weird and random. It just starts from the beginning, when Kougami ends up digging up a missing set of Core Medals...that ends up belonging to an alchemist behind the original OOO who has decided to warp space and time in order to bring about a world under his control. (I can't say "the end" since Maki actually does make a good point: ending the world and creating your own isn't "THE END", which is exactly what he desires) Things get crazy rather quickly: Eiji and the Greeed all lose most of their Core Medals for Gara's vessel, while Gara uses cute jester-like Belles (with weird warped voices) to collect Cell Medals from people by giving them money to get top-knots. Then we start getting weird giant Core Medals appearing which warp space-time further, with Eiji, Hina and Ankh ending up in Tokugawa-era Japan and trying to protect the modern people from the Edo-denziens (before it turns into Gintama) while a noble samurai arrives to assist them. Then we find out that the "man-voiced/woman body" Gara is actually a boy's mother who ran off after she fought with him only to become his vessel in modern times. And then Eiji somehow gets his hands on another set of Core Medals that no one had any idea of before (an Orange Set based on various reptiles) from Tokugawa himself, shorts out Gara's Cell Medal machine with way too many Cell Medals to help everyone escape, then fights Gara who appears to be some sort of big Greeed monster. And that's before "rocket-man Rider" and "an 8 Rider all-combo with the Greeed helping Eiji" happens!

Well OK, maybe I'm giving too many generalizations but a lot of weird stuff happened in this movie. But that doesn't mean it wasn't all bad. The movie continues the series' major theme of "reaching out your hand to someone in need", and does so with plenty of hand motifs throughout the film. The symbolism of everyone holding hands may seem cheesy but the concept, particularly as Eiji and the others were in Tokugawa Japan, was powerful in showing how they were all in this together; this particularly was powerful when Eiji made his decision to Belle (who was cute BTW...even if this whole thing is just some delusion and she's doing cosplay and got caught up in it) to save "his family", which meant everybody who was trapped with him in the Tokugawa world. (which was obvious but extremely in character for someone like Eiji) The kid story was typical OOO stuff with a character of the day but it worked mostly because of the weird scenario that his arrogance about wanting to spend time with his mom ended up getting her possessed by Gara with his desire, thus the need for him to reconnect with her and embrace the little things considering his scenario in life. The stuff with the samurai was strange and I know associated with some sort of unofficial crossover but it was fun seeing this guy helping Eiji out of time, particularly when the two used their swords together to face down Gara's minions and the Yummy. Also as random as it appearing was, the BuraKaWani combo was awesome and great being a combo with a powerful head and feet with the turtle shield for the arms; likewise the "8-combo finisher" to defeat Gara was amazing and really felt like the concept of what Kougami was getting across. And of course was the cameo by Fourze, which was crazy (suddenly a rocket-man appears in a movie that involved the warping of space-time bringing things from the past to the present...and yet rocket-men are from "the future"!) but sort of worked in the idea of reaching out between eras (a "past tech Rider" and a "Future Tech Rider") and generations (Eiji being the old man compared to the kid that Fourze is)

Though even with the good, I did feel really confused by the whole thing. For one thing: considering that Kougami would already know about the dangers possessed by the Greeed, why would he decide suddenly to awaken Gara? Maybe he just wanted the BuraKaWani medals even with him still "using them" but it was reckless. (and Satonaka did almost nothing in the movie ending up falling asleep during the whole ordeal) There is also mention that somehow Kougami himself may have descended from the original OOO and thus perhaps explains a lot but little else was said about it at this point. Meanwhile, Gotou and Date didn't really get the chance to do much: sure they did destroy Gara's barrier but OOO was back in our time and probably could have made it considering that Gara was dealing with the power of Eiji's desire anyway which would have weakened the barrier of the main domain. We did get one bit of Eiji using the Birth belt, but it really shows his incompatability with it (that and he has no real practice with it and the belt and powers require way more thought to use more effectively compared to him slashing out with whatever Core Medals Ankh gives him this time) The Greeed didn't really do anything either, but they did at least serve their purpose due to Gara needing their Core Medals for his plot and in helping Eiji defeat it seeing it as part of the original problem, even if Gara himself was essentially now a Greeed. (since the alchemists were associated with the first OOO, they have no love for him being around obviously)

Overall the movie had some problems and was trying too hard to just be weird but it did work and helped me turn the corner for the last third of OOO.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 03:42 PM #298
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And now for something a little bit different:

A pro wrestling fan performs/recreates all the transformations of the Heisei Riders, up to Gaim. They've even got special effects, the actual filming locations, and everything!

Honestly, kind of surprised that this type of thing isn't done all that often.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 03:33 AM #299
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I love how he used his smartphone for Faiz and Kiva's.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 04:28 AM #300
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The Faiz one I wasn't surprised at though (currently, the password to my phone is Kaixa's henshin code). I actually dug the Ryuki one more...mostly because I've been trying for awhile to find Ryuki's Advent Deck as a background for my phone, just so I do what this guy did. XD

(either that, or the NOTE from Gatchaman CROWDS)
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