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Old April 27th, 2015, 05:42 PM #41
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I definitely understand the need for this but like many others that kills trades for me because I don't have the income to just front money for any trades. Really too bad it's come to this.
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Old April 27th, 2015, 05:46 PM #42
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nickshaw2814 wrote: View Post

I definitely understand the need for this but like many others that kills trades for me because I don't have the income to just front money for any trades. Really too bad it's come to this.
You could sell what you have first then take the money towards hunting down what you want to buy. Sure it's a longer process, but you'd get the cash needed to buy what you're shopping for.
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Old April 27th, 2015, 06:05 PM #43
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New Rule/Policy on Trading - Trading is being banned! - Please Read

I rarely do business here anymore, but I'd like to chin in anyway.

I feel like the idea is sound, but shouldn't be REQUIRED. Just like paying as gift, make folks aware of what best practices are for doing business and if they don't take precautions, it's on them.

Like the "you must now list every transaction" rule (which honestly got to be too much of a pain so led to me not updating my thread), this comes across as an overbearing knee jerk reaction to one or more bad cases out of many positive.

I get that the staff want to wipe their hands of liability, but most of us here are big boys. Give folks the information they need to be safe without being all whips and chains about it. Otherwise you risk killing the "market" all together by being too over bearing.

And to reiterate: I think the idea is sound as an insurance policy where trust may be lacking or unestablished, but requiring it or risking repercussion just seems over the top.
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Old April 27th, 2015, 06:09 PM #44
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Well, you're right. Right now, we're making it absolutely clear that it's unsupported. Just like how I found out a few people still paid for their stuff under "Gifts" even though we had the rules clearly stating it's not supported at all by RangerBoard in our rules & policies. There's absolutely no way we can stop it when people choose to ignore it.

And so, if you violate our rules & policies because you choose to - we're not helping you at all. This can include tagging the scammer because the members chose to go against the rules & policies. It's like you said, you're all "big boys". You guys can either decide to follow the rules or go against it. What you guys privately discuss & agree on, we can't stop it from happening.
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Old April 27th, 2015, 06:11 PM #45
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Fair enough then. I'd say go with that approach. "In order for us to assist you in any way with your transactions, you must follow these guidelines"

Has a far less draconian sound and amounts to the same thing.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 12:31 PM #46
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As a long-time RB marketplace user, I love this idea. I don't trade much anyway, but having seen plenty of my friends get scammed back in the day, I wish we had a system like this back then.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 07:07 PM #47
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I've never been one to do much trading anyway, but I'd actually thought about implementing this as my own requirement awhile back. The paypal fees for each party would be minimal, and it seems like common sense to want to ensure that all of your transactions are legitimate and protected.

I don't understand the backlash over this at all. If you're too tight to spare a couple extra dollars in order to offer buyer/trader protection when I'm shipping an item to you worth potentially hundreds of dollars, then you aren't someone I'd like to be doing business with anyway.

Last edited by Deus; April 28th, 2015 at 07:16 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 07:52 PM #48
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Can I throw in my two cents (rhetorical question, I'm stating my opinion anyway)?

Recently, I've seen several new rules established here in the merchandise section. Now, RangerBoard has been around for over a decade, and I don't know how many years there's been a toys section here, but it's been a long time. In the first few years, were there scammers? Yes. Are there still scammers? You bet there are! Will there always be scammers? As long there are transactions, there will be scammers. We may be able to reduce the number of problem dealers/buyers, but not halt them completely. It's just a part of the business. As a result of these increased restrictions, it makes it harder and harder for honest sellers/buyers to conduct their transactions. I implore the mods to take the moderate and reasonable actions, and not make emotional decisions.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 08:02 PM #49
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FE21 wrote: View Post

Can I throw in my two cents (rhetorical question, I'm stating my opinion anyway)?

Recently, I've seen several new rules established here in the merchandise section. Now, RangerBoard has been around for over a decade, and I don't know how many years there's been a toys section here, but it's been a long time. In the first few years, were there scammers? Yes. Are there still scammers? You bet there are! Will there always be scammers? As long there are transactions, there will be scammers. We may be able to reduce the number of problem dealers/buyers, but not halt them completely. It's just a part of the business. As a result of these increased restrictions, it makes it harder and harder for honest sellers/buyers to conduct their transactions. I implore the mods to take the moderate and reasonable actions, and not make emotional decisions.
Agreed with the scammers statement - disagree with the rest. Dealing on RangerBoard is like driving a car - you require Driver's insurance by law. In our case, it's PayPal insurance per our rules.

So that when it does happen again, users have a chance to get compensation back. The changes in rules aren't to completely stop the scammers - they're to provide safety nets for the members dealing.

It's an extra few steps to use PayPal and it's an extra few steps to get what you want with selling & buying rather than direct trading. But it's still possible. Those that depend on trading can sell what they have first to get the money that they don't have. Now they can shop for the items they wanted to trade for. Inconveniencing yes, and everyone should have the insurance.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 08:10 PM #50
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Decade wrote: View Post

Agreed with the scammers statement - disagree with the rest. Dealing on RangerBoard is like driving a car - you require Driver's insurance by law. In our case, it's PayPal insurance per our rules.
Wouldn't that analogy be better akin to running a business and insuring your business? So that if you do get screwed in a deal, you're covered by the insurance, in this case the insurance being the paypal transaction. Because that's basically what each members sales thread is, an online store where they show their merchandise for sale or trade, and as with a retail store there will be "theft" (scams on trades) and such.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 08:12 PM #51
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I don't know if business insurance is required by law, and most people aren't running a business here except a few key members. Driving seemed more comparable to me.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 08:27 PM #52
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Technically they're all running a business on here. Whether its labeled as a store, like Wolfknight's Toys to Games, or not. I may not have a store like that, but i have "set up shop" here to sell my items. So technically i am running a business. And in running a business there are various types of insurance required.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 08:31 PM #53
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I still don't see it that way, but of course I'm not American, where they tax you on every cent you get no matter how you got it.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 08:43 PM #54
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It's not necessarily an American thing. My point was, you sell stuff (run a business) you want to protect yourself against theft (scams, in this case). That's what the paypal transaction in trades seems to be, protection (to a certain degree) against theft in trades. I would think that kind of thing to be in place in any business no matter what country. And that's why I'm for the new rule.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 08:49 PM #55
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Decade wrote: View Post

I still don't see it that way, but of course I'm not American, where they tax you on every cent you get no matter how you got it.
They tax you on every cent you get until you break the $1,000,000 threshold, where you don't pay a cent!

After all, how else do we pay for this?
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Old April 28th, 2015, 08:55 PM #56
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GoldLightning wrote: View Post

It's not necessarily an American thing. My point was, you sell stuff (run a business) you want to protect yourself against theft (scams, in this case). That's what the paypal transaction in trades seems to be, protection (to a certain degree) against theft in trades. I would think that kind of thing to be in place in any business no matter what country. And that's why I'm for the new rule.
I'm glad you're for the rule, I just don't agree with the definition of a business. In Canada for example you can make money by selling your stuff online (eBay, Craigslist, RB, etc) or offline (to friends, family, garage sales), and the earnings don't have to be reported. It's all just pocket cash - that's where I don't agree that it's officially a "business", since most people are on here doing it as a side thing. To the extent that it's being conducted as a "business transaction", yeah sure.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 09:02 PM #57
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The only thing i know about ebay is that they charge to list usually. I keep getting e-mails about "free listing for a limited time" or free if your item sells or something. I ways ignore it, don't sell on ebay. I meant that setting up a thread on here is like a business in that you open a thread (open a shop) and display your merchandise (photo with your name here, actual table with merchandise in a legit shop). And you just want some security/insurance to protect yourself (which is, again, the paypal rule for trades). That's all.
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Old May 1st, 2015, 08:26 AM #58
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While I understand the need for this, every time someone sets up a trade or buy or sell, there is always going to be risk involved. I've been scammed a few times, but I find that people generally are honest. Plus, trader feedback helps.

The problem with instituting PayPal "insurance" is that the scammer could still run away with your money AND your items. It's difficult, but it's been done. Also, PayPal can ban you for opening multiple disputes over a timeframe, even if they're legitimate.
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Old May 1st, 2015, 12:01 PM #59
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This forces the scammers to also front up their own money. There's no way they could even attempt to get away with your money AND items otherwise. Getting away with your money shouldn't be possible unless people are breaking the other rule; paying as gift.

And it's also under the assumption that someone is getting scammed all the time that they would be at risk of being banned by PayPal for opening too many disputes - but how does that even support not using PayPal at all? If you're someone constantly being scammed you'd want the protection. PayPal can also see if the other person has multiple cases opened against them like it has happened to Crater, who took multiple payments for 1 sale.
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Old May 3rd, 2015, 02:18 PM #60
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I think this a bad idea. It essentially BANS trading fro anyone that can't afford to upfront the cost. Not everyone has cash lying around for collateral.

I understand the want to protect the members of this board from scams, but I think this was 1 step too far. You will NEVER prevent scamming 100% or 90%. There will always be a way to cheat the system. I think the more rules you enforce the less people there will be to trade with and overall this will traffic. And perhaps that is the goal? Only trade with ourselves and people we know and trust?

1) I don't have money lying around ready for just merch. People like me are now isolated. (INB4 tough luck)

2) If I have to create a paypal transaction the cash gets deducted form my account and send to the other user, the funds received don't go into my account, the have to arrive in paypal and then get sent which depending on a weekend transaction can take up to 5 days (even more with holidays). You have to be willing to deprive yourself of funds in order to complete a transaction.

3) Users are willing to trade varying costs items for varying costs items (ie. cheaper for more expensive). This creates another logistical nightmare and discourages more trading.

I'll just leave you with my first reaction to this rule: If I had the extra money to put up-front why wouldn't I just buy the item?

I think this was a bad idea. Decade, you intention was good but in the end the execution will all but kill trading. Again, if that was the intention and require bigger and bigger hoops to jump through i order to keep outside traffic out of RangerBoard, then by all means... it's your board. it's just a shame that we are losing a big part of it.
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