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Old March 12th, 2019, 05:35 PM #621
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TeraMan wrote: View Post

That's not my point.

My point is not me wishing there were more references for the sake of references (which I am stodgily against). My point is that the movie doesn't really do a good job on FEELING like it's in the 90's. I don't mean the movie deliberately focusing on 90's stuff. I mean just the little things shown in the background: people in the correct period fashion, music, dialogue and period-specific terminology, technology, etc.

Although in the case of Captain Marvel, it's not so much not having it, so much as scenes being deliberately set in places where any 90's-ness isn't a part of the scenes. The bar scene, air field scenes, the Rambeau homes, all of the space scenes, all are deliberately set where 90's-ness isn't present.
Hmm, okay. I guess for me I just didn't see it as a...lacking thing. There was some 90's stuff, but then it's just...normal mainly about it. But I guess I see, so cause they embraced some 90's fun nostalgia for marketing and yet the movie didn't lean so heavily into it you feel there's a...dissonance of sorts.
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Old March 12th, 2019, 09:05 PM #622
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FET-Kun wrote: View Post

Yes, because the box office turn out of a movie, and it's overall quality... are always 1:1.
It's not about the quality, oddly enough, it's about the trolling hate boner that was supposed to be trying to bring this movie down. Heck, I wonder how Alita did, since that was the one this bizarre movement was supposed to be pushing instead of Cap Marvel.

Cameron Samurai wrote: View Post

Yeah, I hated this movie and I don't care if I'm labelled a "hater" or a "troll" for having a different opinion. At least I'm honest. You're right, how much it makes is no indicator of quality or how many actually come out with a satisfactory experience, and with the way reviews are coming in all pointing to it being "fine" at best and "eh" at worst, I'm expecting a bit of a drop off. In the long run, I feel this will be a cultural 'success' the way Last Jedi was a 'success', it'll make it's money but it'll do nothing to quell the culture war going on.
You're labeled a hater for constantly coming into MCU threads just to talk about how much you hated the movie. It's not even really discussion or critique at this point, you've done it so often it's become a running joke. By definition, you're only here to hate on it, so yes, you will get labelled a hater for that behavior. Had you come in to explain why you didn't like things, that would be an actual discussion and you would not earn that label.

Now you're going to get labelled a troll if you keep throwing flamebait around like "culture war". Knock that off, you know you're just going to stir up a bunch of people with that kind of language. That's troll speak. If you don't want to be called a hater and a troll, try actively expressing yourself and your opinions in ways that aren't solely to be negative about other people's opinions.

TeraMan wrote: View Post

Personally I'm fucking furious they dragged Alita into it.

That now anyone who didn't see the movie are now going to think of it as "that movie that was used to push questionable agendas of bigoted trolls".
I will always remember it as that movie used to push the questionable agenda of mixing anime and CGI inside the uncanny valley.

John Pannozzi wrote: View Post

Interesting in-universe implications re: Stan Lee's cameo in this movie.

Oh, and here's another anachronism:

If Carol left Earth in 1989, how could she have experience playing Street Fighter II, which came out in 1991?


Otherwise, still a pretty good movie.
Did she play SF or just blow it up? I don't remember a game being in the flashbacks just in the then present day bar.


TeraMan wrote: View Post

On top of the the aforementioned bits on some of the references not matching up to the timeline presented, it really does feel like the 90's-isms were an afterthought.
I'm intrigued by this premise as I thought the subtle use of 90s setting behind the obvious references helped built that world better. Everyone has old cars, old phones, old clothes that are more like out of a generic family photo not "dress up for 90s day" at school exaggeration, payphones pop up as just normal things on the street, old tech is considered normal not even pointed out how wrong it is by alien standards and not even defended as cutting edge for the time. Maybe that's part of it, with all the advanced Kree stuff outside of Earth scenes it can be a bit jarring with the setting. What would have felt more 90s to you outside of references?
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Old March 12th, 2019, 09:21 PM #623
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post


I will always remember it as that movie used to push the questionable agenda of mixing anime and CGI inside the uncanny valley.
Well I mean the only ones that looked uncanny were the machines...and by definition of Uncanny valley it works.
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Old March 12th, 2019, 09:31 PM #624
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Did she play SF or just blow it up? I don't remember a game being in the flashbacks just in the then present day bar.
I'm pretty sure the panning shot showed the SF cabinet and then a transparent "past" Carol pointing at it/playing it. It was pretty brief though.
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Old March 13th, 2019, 04:32 AM #625
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Did she play SF or just blow it up? I don't remember a game being in the flashbacks just in the then present day bar.
She blew up the jukebox, not SF.
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Old March 13th, 2019, 01:08 PM #626
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half in the bag did Captain Marvel and they hit a lot of good points on both sides of the controversy.
It starts at the 6:30 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pQNYeOEFJc

They drag around on many points in the review, but I think that's jut Redlettermedia in general as this is apparent in many of their reviews

Last edited by Allio; March 13th, 2019 at 01:13 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 01:49 PM #627
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

It's not about the quality, oddly enough, it's about the trolling hate boner that was supposed to be trying to bring this movie down. Heck, I wonder how Alita did, since that was the one this bizarre movement was supposed to be pushing instead of Cap Marvel.



You're labeled a hater for constantly coming into MCU threads just to talk about how much you hated the movie. It's not even really discussion or critique at this point, you've done it so often it's become a running joke. By definition, you're only here to hate on it, so yes, you will get labelled a hater for that behavior. Had you come in to explain why you didn't like things, that would be an actual discussion and you would not earn that label.

Now you're going to get labelled a troll if you keep throwing flamebait around like "culture war". Knock that off, you know you're just going to stir up a bunch of people with that kind of language. That's troll speak. If you don't want to be called a hater and a troll, try actively expressing yourself and your opinions in ways that aren't solely to be negative about other people's opinions.



I will always remember it as that movie used to push the questionable agenda of mixing anime and CGI inside the uncanny valley.



Did she play SF or just blow it up? I don't remember a game being in the flashbacks just in the then present day bar.




I'm intrigued by this premise as I thought the subtle use of 90s setting behind the obvious references helped built that world better. Everyone has old cars, old phones, old clothes that are more like out of a generic family photo not "dress up for 90s day" at school exaggeration, payphones pop up as just normal things on the street, old tech is considered normal not even pointed out how wrong it is by alien standards and not even defended as cutting edge for the time. Maybe that's part of it, with all the advanced Kree stuff outside of Earth scenes it can be a bit jarring with the setting. What would have felt more 90s to you outside of references?


im confused as to why that person thinks there wasn't enough 90's references...i mean from the song choices, to the dial up connection and than being abruptly disconnected from it, to the use of an old fashion map right before she steals that guys motorcycle, etc, there was references all throughout the dang movie lol. i thought there was enough references to properly place it in the 90's when it happened....i mean hello, she lands inside of a blockbuster.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 05:05 PM #628
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My problem with the 90ís references is that they were jokes you can see miles away. Granted comedy is subjective and so in this case it didnít resonate

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Old March 15th, 2019, 07:41 PM #629
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Heck, I wonder how Alita did, since that was the one this bizarre movement was supposed to be pushing instead of Cap Marvel.
As of right now, Alita: Battle Angel has grossed $384.7 million worldwide.

Now in terms of whether it's broken even or not it's...conflicting. Box Office Mojo says that it's estimated budget is $170 million. So in theory, it SHOULD have already broken even and started making a profit...but then there's other reports saying that it needs to make $400-$500 million to break even.

Either way, not that it matters, considering Captain Marvel made Alita's current gross and more within just it's opening weekend. It's a fucking slaughter.

I will always remember it as that movie used to push the questionable agenda of mixing anime and CGI inside the uncanny valley.
...eyes weren't that bad in motion.

Captain Marvel's CG on the other hand...

Ok, so most of the CG throughout Captain Marvel is...pretty standard for MCU films. About the same quality as you would find in the past movies...except for the scenes where Carol dons the mohawk helmet. Where the bottom half of her face becomes a character model from PS2/Xbox era. Even in the scenes where she's clearly not wearing the extra shield...thing...when out in space, you can tell it's not actually Brie Larson and just a CG recreation of her.

Like...was it not possible to actually make a helmet for Larson to wear and green screen in? I'm no costume designer, but it doesn't seem like the helmet would be THAT complicated of a piece that it would require making it CG.

In my book, forget CG-Cushing or CG-Fisher in Star Wars: Rogue One. This is some of the worst CG I've seen in a recent Disney production.

What would have felt more 90s to you outside of references?
Actually have more scenes that are appropriately dressed up in 90-isms without being the focus of the scene. I don't need to have it clearly shown center-screened that Carol is wearing a Nine-Inch-Nails shirt or be reminded of slow dial-up internet. I just need the peripheral details that reinforce it.

Plus, the bulk of Earth scenes used like the bar, the air force base, the Rambeau household, none are really dressed up in a way to indicate that they're in the 90's. If you took those same scenes and said that they were set in 2019, very little would have to change.

To use an example of where the MCU does this right: the opening scene in GotG Vol 2 with Ego and Meredith Quill. Where the way how scenes are depicted, the characters' costumes used, the touches of technology used, everything said "this is set in 1980s" without the movie deliberately pointing it out.

I would also say that maybe this is a sign that not enough time has passed since the 90's ended or that 90's culture just isn't drastically different from 2010's culture compared to, say, 70's or 80's culture to make a difference...but then I remember movies like Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction where I could tell it was set in the 90's with one glance.

(Also I should confess: I live in the Los Angeles area. The train fight scene is on a train that I've taken many times before. And well...the train and train stations shown weren't drastically different to how they are now. I'm not sure if this is an indicator of how [sadly] those trains and stations haven't been updated in almost 30 years, but it doesn't help)

But, once again:

TeraMan wrote: View Post

It's not a make or break deal with the movie, but it is a bit disappointing to see they didn't really commit to it.
Guys. Stop it.

Even I think this is a minor thing at the end of the day, and is a nitpick at worse.

megagao wrote: View Post

im confused as to why that person thinks there wasn't enough 90's references...
Once again:

TeraMan wrote: View Post

That's not my point.

My point is not me wishing there were more references for the sake of references (which I am stodgily against). My point is that the movie doesn't really do a good job on FEELING like it's in the 90's. I don't mean the movie deliberately focusing on 90's stuff. I mean just the little things shown in the background: people in the correct period fashion, music, dialogue and period-specific terminology, technology, etc.

Although in the case of Captain Marvel, it's not so much not having it, so much as scenes being deliberately set in places where any 90's-ness isn't a part of the scenes. The bar scene, air field scenes, the Rambeau homes, all of the space scenes, all are deliberately set where 90's-ness isn't present.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 08:14 PM #630
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TeraMan wrote: View Post

As of right now, Alita: Battle Angel has grossed $384.7 million worldwide.

Now in terms of whether it's broken even or not it's...conflicting. Box Office Mojo says that it's estimated budget is $170 million. So in theory, it SHOULD have already broken even and started making a profit...but then there's other reports saying that it needs to make $400-$500 million to break even.

Either way, not that it matters, considering Captain Marvel made Alita's current gross and more within just it's opening weekend. It's a fucking slaughter.
The percentage isn't the same country to country. So the break even for the studio is in theory around 400 million. But give or take the countries in which they take a lower return it could be as high as 500 million. If it was a straight 50/50 it would need 340 million but that isn't how it works.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 08:47 PM #631
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I know one calculation for captain marvel is apparently 750 mill to break even.

I donít know much but apparently you are looking to need to make x2.5 your budget+marketing budget to break even. This is what I assume from an outsider listening to friends
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Old March 15th, 2019, 09:13 PM #632
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Allio wrote: View Post

I know one calculation for captain marvel is apparently 750 mill to break even.

I donít know much but apparently you are looking to need to make x2.5 your budget+marketing budget to break even. This is what I assume from an outsider listening to friends
I don't think this movie cost quite $200M. There was some out there stuff, but it's pretty small scale in terms of effects & action set pieces. They didn't have to craft anything crazy like for Black Panther.

Apparently word is that it cost around $150M so they've pretty much already hit the profit level.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 10:34 PM #633
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but you forget marketing budget (which never gets revealed) and the typical marketing budget from what I heard is 100 million, so overall Captain Marvel is 250 million (150 production+100 Marketing). So if the x2.5 is the "break even number" you are looking at a total of 600 million +, though I guess some goes with 700/750 as a rounded up number.

Again, I know nothing of these things. Just going by what some have said.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 10:38 PM #634
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Allio wrote: View Post

but you forget marketing budget (which never gets revealed) and the typical marketing budget from what I heard is 100 million, so overall Captain Marvel is 250 million. So if the x2.5 is the "break even number" you are looking at a total of 600 million +, though I guess some goes with 700/750 as a rounded up number.

Again, I know nothing of these things. Just going by what some have said.
If it's 2.5x + Marketing the number would be around $475M ($375M from the budget + $100M for marketing). It's made so far $559M.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 10:59 PM #635
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I think the equation is (Budget+Market)2.5. I think Marketing is taken into before the multiplier, but I guess some goes with this as this would basically be covering everything in regards to a total (best overshoot and make money then undershoot and lose money)

Though I do wonder how all of it factors with disney in other parts of the world, of course their marketing and stuff will probably be taken out of the profit as well. I can't really see a 100 million marketing account to marketing to the world. I always imagine the 100 million accounts for the USA, o then what about the other parts of the world. I assume it's 10 over here, 5 over here, 30 over here, 20 there.

Then of course I feel like you have to factor into the fact that this is Disney we are talking about, they kind of go a little more off than your typical hollywood film in marketing.

Edit: Though thinking on it, I guess since this is all disney they don't have to worry about splitting profits to different companies (like with the Power Rangers movie) so it does technically cut the middle man out.

This is why I never try to get into box office shit.

Last edited by Allio; March 15th, 2019 at 11:08 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 10:21 AM #636
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TeraMan wrote: View Post

Actually have more scenes that are appropriately dressed up in 90-isms without being the focus of the scene. I don't need to have it clearly shown center-screened that Carol is wearing a Nine-Inch-Nails shirt or be reminded of slow dial-up internet. I just need the peripheral details that reinforce it.
That's the thing I was talking about though. It has those peripheral details, behind the obvious reference joke. Everything is refitted to the 90s, right down to details like the chrome metal bars as railings for stairs. Nice set touch ups, things that are just out of date but not glaringly so like with an older aesthetic. A lot of things today are just slightly upgraded looks from the 90s like that, the sets weren't just relying on existing architecture and pretending it was the 90s style, they touched up a lot to look like it was 90s. I thought that was a great set detail, as I tend to notice when period set movies are using backgrounds that are just existing settings pretending to be in the past.

Plus, the bulk of Earth scenes used like the bar, the air force base, the Rambeau household, none are really dressed up in a way to indicate that they're in the 90's. If you took those same scenes and said that they were set in 2019, very little would have to change.
A lot would change in those settings. The Bar would have different things in it, flat screen tvs, probably a digital jukebox, modern logos on its signs, everything would probably look a little older too as that would be the style then but a bar like that wouldn't update or replace things until they absolutely had to. The Rambeau house would have similar set changes, updated tv, furniture, the way things are placed and what is in the house appliance wise, there are just tiny details of how things look different there that really sold it for me. But I tend to look at those details more too, so maybe I notice it more than others.

To use an example of where the MCU does this right: the opening scene in GotG Vol 2 with Ego and Meredith Quill. Where the way how scenes are depicted, the characters' costumes used, the touches of technology used, everything said "this is set in 1980s" without the movie deliberately pointing it out.
I find this so interesting because I had the exact opposite reaction. Especially with how Guardians sort of hits you over the head with 80s references. But the things you praise here are what I'm praising CM for doing with its setting.

I did really love the use of dairy queen as a location though. If anything is going to stand the test of time it's a DQ changing up over time.

I'm not sure if this is an indicator of how [sadly] those trains and stations haven't been updated in almost 30 years
It kind of is...

Even I think this is a minor thing at the end of the day, and is a nitpick at worse.
Yeah, it's not an attack on you or calling you wrong. It's just talking about an interesting way two people can approach the same concept in the exact opposite way and looking for clarification. I don't want to harp on you for it, I just wanted to talk about that one point because I tend to look at that kind of set dressing for period set movies more and find it oddly fascinating the way movies try or don't try to cover the time period up.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 03:46 PM #637
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Went to see it this afternoon, screening was packed out which is rare for me going to see movies as of late, I enjoyed it for the most part but it did tend to drag on the backstory too much. Once the final 3rd came round it was fantastic and tied up a few loose ends from previous MCU films. For me it's in the top ten of MCU but a way off top 5
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Old March 16th, 2019, 07:41 PM #638
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I saw it today and enjoy it.
Carol and Fury had some good screen chemistry.
Like the only flake I would give it was the CGI looked bad during like, one scene, to me.
Also
Stan Lee was reading the Mallrats Script on the Train. That was amazing and fit with the year.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 12:16 PM #639
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Since we're on the topic of the 90s, I thought that Alita felt more 90s than Captain Marvel even though the setting is in the future. I say this because the look is very reminiscent of what the 90s thought the future would look like.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 12:18 PM #640
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ultrakill wrote: View Post

Since we're on the topic of the 90s, I thought that Alita felt more 90s than Captain Marvel even though the setting is in the future. I say this because the look is very reminiscent of what the 90s thought the future would look like.
The source material was made in the 90's.

Last edited by MutekiDragon; March 17th, 2019 at 12:27 PM.
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