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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:09 AM #2621
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Merlin wrote: View Post

Speaking of Aladdin, I'm curious. Was there uproar when Jake Gyllenhaal was cast as the Prince of Persia in that movie? I didn't hear much of it, and I've wondered if it was quieter because that was a garbage video game movie taken less seriously than a large Hollywood picture that reaches wider audiences.
During the time, maybe a few articles. It's referenced now yes. I saw an article about aladdin that referenced it.


And titanium brings up a good point. The Doctor can be pretty shitty.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:10 AM #2622
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"Did you just assume the doctor's gender? Just because the doctor's sex is female doesn't mean the Doctor is female. He might still prefer he/him! Please be respectful towards his life choices"

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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:10 AM #2623
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TealMystechRanger wrote: View Post

Maybe a strong Welsh accent...
Oy! Lol, too be fair my Welsh accent isn't all that strong.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:13 AM #2624
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DekaRed wrote: View Post

Oy! Lol, too be fair my Welsh accent isn't all that strong.
Wasn't suggesting anything negative by it! Just wanted to throw a non-English one in there and I'm not familiar enough with the different Welsh regional dialects to have given a specific one.

Speaking of accents, I wonder if Whittaker's going to use her natural Huddersfield accent? Tennant's the only modern Doctor who's not used his real accent (save for moments like in 'Tooth and Claw').
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:14 AM #2625
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Davros wasn't wrong and they did absolutely nothing to disprove or shed any of the negative truths he laid out for the Doctor. The show is ultimately about a guy who shouldn't be in charge of saving the day being the only guy who can save the day, and the carnage, both literal and metaphorical in the form of his companions, that he wrecks along the way.
I think Fires of Pompeii was an attempt at justifying it, but wasn't convincing. The Doctor will kill an entire malevolent race to preserve the proper flow of history, and in doing so sacrifices thousands of innocent people. But as long as he saves just one family at his companion's begging, what he does is justified. The human companion keeps him human. It was definitely a very emotional moment, but the larger picture doesn't add up to anything benevolent.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:17 AM #2626
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BlueMystechRanger wrote: View Post

....The arguments on one side have literally just been "she shouldn't be a woman because the Doctor's never been a woman before" and "Now little boys have no role models".
In addition to those and other poorly thought-out points, the aforementioned "role models are genderless" argument holds water.

Whereas arguments on the other side include...

hasso_opitz wrote: View Post

Aladdin shouldn't be cast as a white person in a major motion picture from Hollywood. Sounds unfair to all the white people. I know.
... which is entirely unrelated and makes that side's point look sporadic and disjointed.

Why say this? Do you think I'm somehow bothered by the female Dr Who, and by extension that would make me resentful of the rightful casting of a middle-eastern character with a middle-eastern actor?
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:26 AM #2627
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Fan edit of the reveal with color grading, no score, and proper TARDIS prop

https://twitter.com/TheSpiderDalek/s...22196885864449
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:30 AM #2628
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JaimeZeo wrote: View Post

In addition to those and other poorly thought-out points, the aforementioned "role models are genderless" argument holds water.

Whereas arguments on the other side include...



... which is entirely unrelated and makes that side's point look sporadic and disjointed.

Why say this? Do you think I'm somehow bothered by the female Dr Who, and by extension that would make me resentful of the rightful casting of a middle-eastern character with a middle-eastern actor?
It's the whole subject of if a male can have a female role model then a female can have a male role model. AKA let's just all have male role models the end. You said it yourself. Devil's advocate. The point of bringing up Aladdin is to show how "well it's racist if a white person cant be aladdin because they're white!" is the same ridiculous complaint as "well if a male can have female role models then why can't the girls just simply look up to a male Doctor?"

Not everything in a reply is specifically a target against you nor do I represent any "side" than my own.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:33 AM #2629
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TealMystechRanger wrote: View Post

A British accent? Which one were you thinking in particular? I think it'd be fun hearing a Liverpudlian accent whinge about it. Or Brummie! Maybe a strong Welsh accent...
Well, it as mostly a joke but now that you point it out, I can't imagine that "Wow a woman proved me wrong" sentence in any accent not sounding dumb.

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"Did you just assume the doctor's gender? Just because the doctor's sex is female doesn't mean the Doctor is female. He might still prefer he/him! Please be respectful towards his life choices"

--- my tumblr impression
Joke aside, that's a point they may or may not go with. Does the Doctor want to be a woman? Is that going to be the running arc? This could go bad either way, either it treats the female regeneration as something the Doctor has to put up with until he can be male again, or it constantly harks on the change as a source of humor. I'd hope he'd just move on from it and easily accept being a she until she isn't anymore. Though I imagine there will be a lot of stories involving the Doctor having to prove she's the Doctor when people don't recognize a woman as the Doctor.

Would have been a good move to have a companion carry over to show how little the change means to the character itself by carrying on with the companion like nothing happened.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:39 AM #2630
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I haven't watched much, but what are some examples where the Doctor's dick helped him solve a crisis? That's not a metaphor for his screwdriver. When did the fact that he had a male body help that having a female body wouldn't have?
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:39 AM #2631
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hasso_opitz wrote: View Post

It's the whole subject of if a male can have a female role model then a female can have a male role model. AKA let's just all have male role models the end.
Or all female role models; It works both ways, if it doesn't matter. Clearly it does to some people, or this would be a non-issue. The BBC will have known this, of course. This isn't just some spur of the moment casting choice.

hasso_opitz wrote: View Post

You said it yourself. Devil's advocate. The point of bringing up Aladdin is to show how "well it's racist if a white person cant be aladdin because they're white!" is the same ridiculous complaint as "well if a male can have female role models then why can't the girls just simply look up to a male Doctor?"
It's not remotely the same though; race and gender/sex are entirely unrelated and arguments applying to one can't just be applied to the other. It's just not comparable. I get what you're trying to do, but it's a moot point.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:41 AM #2632
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

Well, it as mostly a joke but now that you point it out, I can't imagine that "Wow a woman proved me wrong" sentence in any accent not sounding dumb.
I know, just playing with the "British accent" generalisation, heheh. And you're right, anyone having to eat their hat after all this grousing is going to sound silly.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:42 AM #2633
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I kind of want him to try the femfatal thing (mimicking River's demeanor) only for it to back fire.

Doctor: I don't understand, I was told idiots fall for that!

Other: who told you that?

Doctor: River Song!

Other: what does that say about you?

Doctor: ...?
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:45 AM #2634
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What the hell happened while I was sleeping?
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:46 AM #2635
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Ankh Prime wrote: View Post

What the hell happened while I was sleeping?
Women were declared
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:48 AM #2636
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A way to identify manchildren viewers: 2018 reviews refer to the character only as The Female Doctor or FemDoc.

Because they were all over "The Female Master." Oh wait...
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:50 AM #2637
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Merlin wrote: View Post

A way to identify manchildren viewers: 2018 reviews refer to the character only as The Female Doctor or FemDoc.
...I am going to do this next year.

"They cast a woman! Boy I chose such a good time to get into the franchise..."
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Old July 17th, 2017, 08:59 AM #2638
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We got over 50 years of material of him as a man(if you count the audio dramas and the books) for everyone to go back to. Go watch or read the past stuff or any of the upcoming audio dramas featuring past incarnations. Plus we already had a female doctor in the form of the Exiles audio book in 2003 with Arabella Weir as the Doctor. Female incarnations of the Doctor have been a thing before nuWho. Plus this is a single incarnation. We could very well go back to a white male for the 14th.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 09:03 AM #2639
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Titanium321 wrote: View Post

That just raises the question, Is it wrong to have the Doctor be a pretty decent role model for girls? Is it wrong for people to want that?

At the heart of it, it just comes down to whether or not you believe men and women can equally affect children as role models. As well as if that should even matter, since really it's your opinion you're defending here, so you have to justify to yourself why you don't like it but if you're trying to explain to others you have to find a rational explanation for those questions about why it's wrong that are justifiable to other people.

What good does a list really do? It's a numbers game, male role model characters outnumber female characters in all fiction and are given more prominence and focus in the entertainment industry. It's just basic statistics, naming off a few doesn't do anything to change the math.

If you're looking for role models that don't punch, then you're not paying attention to the Doctor. He may avoid physically hitting his enemies, but the man is near genocidal in his methods of fighting villains. He may not punch the bad guys, but he still kills them all somehow. Hell, if you really want to get into it, The Doctor is a terrible role model for little boys. He teaches kids to manipulate, lie, steal, run away from their problems, and blame/insult everyone else then act like you're above it all when you do the one good thing that saves the day. The Doctor is a shite role model.
Basically I think it's important for everyone to have role models that they can relate to. As shallow as it is, often times this will mean someone that simply looks like you (you in the general sense). Also, I believe it is especially important when someone is shown in a non-traditional or non-stereotypical role.

I'm sure there are girls out there that were inspired to become scientists after watching someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson, but at the same time, you have stories from people such as Emily Deschanel who played Dr. Brennan on Bones who say that numerous fans are young women that tell her they became scientists because they saw her on TV.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in the next 15 years or so, we see an Asian player in the NBA saying they started playing basketball because they saw Jeremy Lin on TV. Going back to the Whoopi Goldberg example, it's hard to deny that some people are quite moved when they see someone like themselves on TV.

So going back to the Doctor, despite his shortcomings (nobody is perfect after all), I'm of the opinion that he does embody quite a few positive traits, that are uncommon in male characters, which should be encouraged. He does have an aversion to violence and, even if it's only lip service, spends a lot of time preaching against genocide. Overall, I think he's fairly unique in terms of male role models which is why I asked for a list. Are there really many others out there like him?
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Old July 17th, 2017, 09:05 AM #2640
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Doctor Who comic creators react

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...teenth-doctor/
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