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Old January 2nd, 2017, 03:52 AM   #21
Xenotome
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$20? Because the GoseiGround zord (just the body component) was $25. GoseiJet was $25.

And given the shear size of the individual Zords $20 doesn't seem like that high a price tag.

And as you said, we don't have any frame of reference beyond what you feel they should have.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 09:08 AM   #22
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What mold issues? Are we talking issues or changes?
They make simple bland molds that seem to be afraid of excessive details. Particularly the movie toys since they have to replicate more complex designs than they are used to with the majority of their properties. That combined with cost saving on paint tends to make a figure look bad, especially since those details they do put into the mold would be colored differently on the original design.

The cost saving on paint application is one thing, but the design molds being simplified don't save anything.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:25 AM   #23
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They make simple bland molds that seem to be afraid of excessive details. Particularly the movie toys since they have to replicate more complex designs than they are used to with the majority of their properties. That combined with cost saving on paint tends to make a figure look bad, especially since those details they do put into the mold would be colored differently on the original design.

The cost saving on paint application is one thing, but the design molds being simplified don't save anything.
What excessive details are missing? If they're excessive, it means they're not adding much in the first place. I haven't seen too many complaints about molds. The villains could be a little more defined, but the Rangers, in any given line, seem just fine.

Is Bandai being cheap? Possibly. I do think that people are more prone to say that than accept the reality that it could be a multitude of financial factors, which Greg has repeatedly helped to illustrate.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:26 AM   #24
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And you attribute it to laziness because? We don't know what varying toy companies have deals what factories, how many Human Rights violations they may or may not be guilty of. And you don't know how much more product they move than PR does so while their margins may be smaller than Bandai's are with PR they can make up for it purely on the number of units they move. We do not have the numbers. Calling their business practices lazy when we have no insight on how they or other companies arrive at them is silly.
Bandai publishes its annual reports online which gives an indication as to how much money their PR and Sentai licenses have made in that financial year. It it not designed to break it down to individual action figures, but it gives you an idea of how successful it is against other manufacturers.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:41 AM   #25
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There's also no excuse for design flaws, particularly in the Legacy line which is specifically designed to be high end collectibles. Charging $200 for a Thunder Megazord that can't stand up straight is a problem. Dragonzord's legs were a problem. The knees on the original Legacy Megazord were a problem. So, yes, I do see cutting corners - especially in the designs rather than aesthetics - on a line that is meant to be high end and is marketed to people who have shown willingness to pay high prices comes off as lazy.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:51 AM   #26
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There's also no excuse for design flaws, particularly in the Legacy line which is specifically designed to be high end collectibles. Charging $200 for a Thunder Megazord that can't stand up straight is a problem. Dragonzord's legs were a problem. The knees on the original Legacy Megazord were a problem. So, yes, I do see cutting corners - especially in the designs rather than aesthetics - on a line that is meant to be high end and is marketed to people who have shown willingness to pay high prices comes off as lazy.
Anybody who has ever manufactured anything is going to have a design flaw. That's why they have recalls and rebates and ways to take care of the customer- just like Bandai did with the Thunder Megazord. And if the knees on the original megazord and dragonzord were an actual problem, I am sure they would have done something about it too.

I'll be the first to say that Bandai isn't perfect. They skip out on paint apps and regularly create new molds but if it's all to ensure that they're not losing money on this toy line then who am I to tell them how to run their business. I'm not being forced to buy their products. Power Rangers toys are not necessary for me to live my life- and more importantly, it's easier now than ever to import from Japan.

I think the real problem here is a lack of understanding when it comes to collector's toys being a privilege not a right. The legacy line- with all its' flaws- is still the best we could ever have hoped for in high end toys from Bandai. They're putting in effort where they don't really have to strictly to appeal to long time fans. Yeah, they're making money off of it- but if you don't like it, don't buy it. It's that simple.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 11:00 AM   #27
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Bandai publishes its annual reports online which gives an indication as to how much money their PR and Sentai licenses have made in that financial year. It it not designed to break it down to individual action figures, but it gives you an idea of how successful it is against other manufacturers.
I haven't looked it up yet, but does it break down what the US toy sales are versus Japanese toy sales for the brand? Or does it lump them both together? What I've seen here and on Twitter tends to fall toward the latter.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 11:14 AM   #28
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Anybody who has ever manufactured anything is going to have a design flaw. That's why they have recalls and rebates and ways to take care of the customer- just like Bandai did with the Thunder Megazord. And if the knees on the original megazord and dragonzord were an actual problem, I am sure they would have done something about it too.

I'll be the first to say that Bandai isn't perfect. They skip out on paint apps and regularly create new molds but if it's all to ensure that they're not losing money on this toy line then who am I to tell them how to run their business. I'm not being forced to buy their products. Power Rangers toys are not necessary for me to live my life- and more importantly, it's easier now than ever to import from Japan.

I think the real problem here is a lack of understanding when it comes to collector's toys being a privilege not a right. The legacy line- with all its' flaws- is still the best we could ever have hoped for in high end toys from Bandai. They're putting in effort where they don't really have to strictly to appeal to long time fans. Yeah, they're making money off of it- but if you don't like it, don't buy it. It's that simple.
Except that's a pretty lame excuse. Quality control should have caught the issues with the Thunder Megazord and Dragonzord's legs before they went to market. These aren't issues that only would have emerged after time. They were glaringly obvious right off of the manufacturing line. They were ignored and the toys were sent to market anyway. The issue with the Thunder Megazord was only rectified after enough people complained. They didn't do the same when people complained about the Power Coins not fitting into the Legacy Morpher properly or when people complained about the Dragonzord's legs not ratcheting. Sure, they may be improving with their customer service, but these are things that shouldn't have been issues in the first place and wouldn't have been with proper quality control. And you know what? The Ninja Megazord is damn near perfect. People say we shouldn't complain because we are lucky to be getting anything at all, but complaining works. We got them to improve their methods by complaining. So, no, we shouldn't just blindly accept what they put out. Another case in point? Operation Overdrive. That toyline was an insult to the fans, not only adult fans, but also kids. They tried to pass off absolute shit toys to us because they didn't think people would bitch. But we did and the toyline failed. They improved dramatically with Jungle Fury. So yeah it may be annoying to read through people complaining about the movie toys looking like crap and having no paint, but maybe by the time we get a sequel, those toys might not be so bad.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 12:26 PM   #29
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I haven't looked it up yet, but does it break down what the US toy sales are versus Japanese toy sales for the brand? Or does it lump them both together? What I've seen here and on Twitter tends to fall toward the latter.
It's not super clear to be honest- I cant even say for sure that it's consistent from year to year. I only use it as a suggestive indicator. But to answer you question, I do not believe that it breaks it down separately consistently. I believe that they use the term "Power Rangers" to refer to the combined Sentai/Power Rangers sales.

I also believe that the numbers they publish combine the financial year Sentai series with the financial year PR series, so in the next report, it will give a figure that combines both Dino Super Charge and Zyuohger, collectively referred to in the report as "Power Rangers".
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:03 PM   #30
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They make simple bland molds that seem to be afraid of excessive details. Particularly the movie toys since they have to replicate more complex designs than they are used to with the majority of their properties. That combined with cost saving on paint tends to make a figure look bad, especially since those details they do put into the mold would be colored differently on the original design.
so now we're talking about the figures from the movies, now what MOLD details are missing?

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The cost saving on paint application is one thing, but the design molds being simplified don't save anything.
This is just incorrect and frankly makes no sense. BoA seems to go out of their way to even if they don't paint something, all of details in the molds are there. So what mold issues are you talking about specifically?

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Bandai publishes its annual reports online which gives an indication as to how much money their PR and Sentai licenses have made in that financial year. It it not designed to break it down to individual action figures, but it gives you an idea of how successful it is against other manufacturers.
Great point! It's a perfect illustration. Take for example this most recent report covering Ninninger/Dino Charge. Their sales were 19.1B Yen and they were the low sellers of the year competing against One Piece (23.3), Yokai Watch (32.9), Dragon Ball (34.9; Which is a franchise that had up until that point only had minimal yearly products), & Gundam (78.6).

And it's just sales, not profits.

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Except that's a pretty lame excuse. Quality control should have caught the issues with the Thunder Megazord and Dragonzord's legs before they went to market. These aren't issues that only would have emerged after time. They were glaringly obvious right off of the manufacturing line.
Which would be the fault of the factory not doing adequate QC which aren't "Bandai" factories, they're all contracted out to various factories in China. And when these defects could be fixed on products people already bought, they did. And when they couldn't they were fixed in the next wave and the factories were reprimanded for it.

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They were ignored and the toys were sent to market anyway. The issue with the Thunder Megazord was only rectified after enough people complained. They didn't do the same when people complained about the Power Coins not fitting into the Legacy Morpher properly or when people complained about the Dragonzord's legs not ratcheting.
I've never heard a complaint about the Legacy Coins not fitting in the morpher. And you can send new leg flaps, you can't send new legs.

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Sure, they may be improving with their customer service, but these are things that shouldn't have been issues in the first place and wouldn't have been with proper quality control.
Every toy line has problems with QC, that is not something unique to Bandai. Hell, not even BoA. There's been more than a few questionable figuarts releases as well.

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And you know what? The Ninja Megazord is damn near perfect. People say we shouldn't complain because we are lucky to be getting anything at all, but complaining works. We got them to improve their methods by complaining. So, no, we shouldn't just blindly accept what they put out.
Absolutely. Make complaints about things that are ACTUALLY wrong. Things like "Where's the paint!?" or "This should be articulated! It's a cheap piece of shit!" doesn't solve anything. Pick actual flaws on them, not things that you know are for a reason.

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Another case in point? Operation Overdrive. That toyline was an insult to the fans, not only adult fans, but also kids. They tried to pass off absolute shit toys to us because they didn't think people would bitch. But we did and the toyline failed. They improved dramatically with Jungle Fury. So yeah it may be annoying to read through people complaining about the movie toys looking like crap and having no paint, but maybe by the time we get a sequel, those toys might not be so bad.
Nobody has ever defended Overdrive, I don't think even Bandai defends their Overdrive line, but they were between a rock and a hard place. Disney had the axe over their heads with cancellation. And here's the kicker, Jungle Fury sold worse than Overdrive by $40M.

And if the sequels toys do have more paint and articulation then it's a direct result from the sales of this line and the performance of the movie because then they'd be more in the spot of Marvel. They'd be able to sacrifice cents per figure for increased total units sold.

Last edited by Xenotome; January 2nd, 2017 at 01:11 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:19 PM   #31
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Which would be the fault of the factory not doing adequate QC which aren't "Bandai" factories, they're all contracted out to various factories in China. And when these defects could be fixed on products people already bought, they did. And when they couldn't they were fixed in the next wave and the factories were reprimanded for it.



I've never heard a complaint about the Legacy Coins not fitting in the morpher. And you can send new leg flaps, you can't send new legs.



Every toy line has problems with QC, that is not something unique to Bandai. Hell, not even BoA. There's been more than a few questionable figuarts releases as well.
That all still sounds like a lack of oversight from Bandai. It also doesn't excuse that the designs that led to the problems came from them. These weren't manufacturing defects. They were design flaws.

And as for the coins, there was a lot of inconsistency among them. Some fit, some don't. For instance, on mine, only the Tyrannosaurus coin stays in the morpher. The others fall out when the button is pushed. I've seen a lot of other people say they have the same problem.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:25 PM   #32
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That all still sounds like a lack of oversight from Bandai. It also doesn't excuse that the designs that led to the problems came from them. These weren't manufacturing defects. They were design flaws.
I can agree with lack of oversight at the factories, however design defects I don't agree with. Mostly in the issue with with Thunder Megazord. The prototypes shown at cons didn't have the issue which means the problem again stemmed from the factory. The support leg pieces were obviously not made of a strong enough material to support the weight that differed between prototype and production.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:27 PM   #33
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I'm all for criticising products. It's the only way to roll the process of change so you don't pay for the same flaws again. For instance- the Legacy Morpher. That is fundamentally flawed. The coins are fifty-fifty if they're going to stay in. Sometimes the act of opening the morpher shakes the coins out. That should never have been released like that.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:34 PM   #34
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I can agree with lack of oversight at the factories, however design defects I don't agree with. Mostly in the issue with with Thunder Megazord. The prototypes shown at cons didn't have the issue which means the problem again stemmed from the factory. The support leg pieces were obviously not made of a strong enough material to support the weight that differed between prototype and production.
The models shown at cons were supported with fishing line. They knew about the issue from day one.



You can see the lines holding it up in this picture from its first appearance.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:40 PM   #35
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It's also placed on a slanted display. They knew about the issue that was solved with thicker leg supports? And you don't think they'd of preferred to save the money and just swap out the pieces before they left the factory?
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:52 PM   #36
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I believe they would have hoped to get away with releasing it without investing in new supports, yes. They weren't able to. They had to give them away for free. The Ninja Megazord had no design flaws. They learned they can't get away with charging premium prices for flawed products.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:57 PM   #37
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I don't know about no flaws, I know a lot of people don't like how loose the Falcon connects. Personally, I don't care.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 02:02 PM   #38
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I don't know about no flaws, I know a lot of people don't like how loose the Falcon connects. Personally, I don't care.
Questionable design isn't the same as a flaw. It doesn't hurt the toy, necessarily, at least not for display. I guess I would say that the bear's back legs not snapping into place and therefore making it difficult to rotate the arms would be a flaw. So, no, I guess it isn't without issues, but at least it stands up without fishing line and hope. It's an improvement. We'll see how things go with the Shogun Megazord.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 03:11 PM   #39
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That all still sounds like a lack of oversight from Bandai. It also doesn't excuse that the designs that led to the problems came from them. These weren't manufacturing defects. They were design flaws.

And as for the coins, there was a lot of inconsistency among them. Some fit, some don't. For instance, on mine, only the Tyrannosaurus coin stays in the morpher. The others fall out when the button is pushed. I've seen a lot of other people say they have the same problem.
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I'm all for criticising products. It's the only way to roll the process of change so you don't pay for the same flaws again. For instance- the Legacy Morpher. That is fundamentally flawed. The coins are fifty-fifty if they're going to stay in. Sometimes the act of opening the morpher shakes the coins out. That should never have been released like that.
This is the first time I recall seeing that coins don't stay in place. I just tried replicating this on three different Legacy Morphers I have. Maybe I am just lucky with the ones I have, but the coins stayed in there pretty tight for me. I shook the Morphers around as hard as I could to see if they would fall out.

I'm not doubting that it is an issue, I'm just curious as to how widespread it actually is. Which button is being pushed that causes them to fall out? The button on the side of the handle that opens the plates?

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Questionable design isn't the same as a flaw. It doesn't hurt the toy, necessarily, at least not for display. I guess I would say that the bear's back legs not snapping into place and therefore making it difficult to rotate the arms would be a flaw. So, no, I guess it isn't without issues, but at least it stands up without fishing line and hope. It's an improvement. We'll see how things go with the Shogun Megazord.
Thunder Megazord didn't topple over like the Legacy Dino Megazord did when you added Legacy Dragonzord. It stood up slanted, but it still stood up. I'm not sure if you could properly diagnose that problem during the initial design phase. You might only be able to see it in production models and by then, it might be too late to address it before it's sent off to stores. Greg said that was the issue with the silver belts on Wave 2 of the Legacy figure. He got the production models for them, saw the issue, tried to have it corrected only to find out it was too late.

With the Thunder Megazord, we got the updated knee tabs with the second shipment. If you bought the first release of the Thunder Megazord, you had to call to get Bandai to send replacements. They are capable of addressing issues, but it truly depends on how far along in production the item is and whether replacements can be given to address the issue.

With the silvers belts, there's no way we can get those reissued. They're part of the mold. With the Thunder Megazord, they can issue do something about it. It's a matter of whether or not it can be fixed in the first place. That's not to say there should be better QC, but there has to be recognition of how the production process works and how feasible it is to correct these mistakes (of which Bandai is not the only toymaker to commit).
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 03:22 PM   #40
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This is the first time I recall seeing that coins don't stay in place. I just tried replicating this on three different Legacy Morphers I have. Maybe I am just lucky with the ones I have, but the coins stayed in there pretty tight for me. I shook the Morphers around as hard as I could to see if they would fall out.

I'm not doubting that it is an issue, I'm just curious as to how widespread it actually is. Which button is being pushed that causes them to fall out? The button on the side of the handle that opens the plates?
The one that opens the plates. It was discussed back when they came out and is a pretty common issue. There are some people who have tried doing things like re-securing the screws on the metal plates (tried on one of mine, no change) and some who think it's because of people with large hands hitting the eject button (tried it holding the handle with two fingers, still pop out. Some coins stay in, some fall. I have three Legacy Morphers and a Movie Morpher.

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